2. कॅबिनेट मिशन आणि अस्पृश्य : डॉ. आंबेडकर

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

(b) Is it not a fact that the break-down is viewed with grave concern by the Joint Representative Board of the Textile Labour Association of Ahmedabad ?

(c) Do not Government of India propose to restore arbitration system ? If not, why not ?

(d) Is it not a fact that there is a written agreement of 1937 signed by both the Textile Labour Association and the Millowners’ Association of Ahmedabad ?

(e) Is it not a fact that the above said agreement is still unregistered and not acted upon by the Millowners’ Association ? If so, do Government propose to use their influence and power necessary to end the dispute ?

(f) Does the Government of India propose to encourage and help the formation of a Labour Research Institute contemplated by the Textile Labour Association of Ahmedabad for the benefit of the working classes ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I am aware of the existence of a trade dispute over bonus between the Textile Labour Association and the Millowners’ Association, Ahmedabad, which has been taken up by the Chief Conciliator under the Bombay Industrial Disputes Act, 1938. I have no information regarding any breakdown of the arbitration machinery and other matters referred to in the question all of which are the concern of the Provincial Government.

292

* Communal Composition of certain Staff under Labour Department

55. Sardar Sant Singh : Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state :

(a) the total number, and (b) the number of Sikhs, (c) Christians, (d) Domiciled Europeans and Anglo-Indians, and

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. II of 1945, 5th March 1945, p. 1039.

(c) Parsis, appointed since 1934 in each grade of pay on (i) permanent and (ii) temporary basis, carrying a salary of Rs. 100 p.m. and above, in all the Departments and offices under him, giving the designations of Sikhs so appointed ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : The time and labour involved in collecting this information will not be commensurate with the results to be achieved. The Government therefore regret their inability to furnish this information.

293

* Profiteering in House Property Transactions in Delhi

57. Mr. Satya Narayan Sinha : Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state if it is a fact that a good deal of profiteering is going on in house property transactions in Delhi City ? If so, what action has been taken by Government to check it ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) Government have no information.

(b) The question does not arise but for the information of the Honourable Member I would state that Government have not passed any measure regulating the sale of private house property in Delhi City.

294 @ Labour Officers’ Training in Britain

810. Mr. T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar : Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state :

(a) whether Labour Officers are being sent to the United Kingdom for training;

(b) the object and course of training ; and (c) how many are proposed to be sent and the expenditure involved in this scheme ?

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. II of 1945, 8th March 1945, p. 1039. @ Ibid., p. 1167.

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) Yes.

(b) The object is to have experienced and suitably trained staff to tackle problems of labour administration, e.g., industrial relations including the settlement of Labour disputes, factory inspection, and labour welfare, wage regulation and inspection, employment exchanges, demobilisation and resettlement, which are of immediate importance to India. The course will cover mainly all the subjects enumerated above and will be conducted partly at the headquarters of the Ministry of Labour and partly in other centres in the United Kingdom. It will last for a period of about six to eight months.

(c) The intention is to send three batches of 20 officers each, each batch including 12 officers of the Central Government and eight of the Provincial Governments and States. Financial sanction has been accorded to the sending of 12 Central Government officers with the first batch of trainees and this will cost the Central Government about a lakh of rupees. The Provincial Governments and States will bear the expenditure in connection with their nominees.

Sardar Sant Singh : Will the Honourable Member say how he proposes to make the selections ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : With regard to the selections of nominees of Provinces and States, the matter rests with them. With regard to the selection of officers from Centre it rests with the Central Government of India. If the point of my Honourable friend is whether communal proportions will be recognised in making the selections, I want to tell him that I do propose to apply that principle.

Sardar Sant Singh : Will preference be given to those who are better qualified so far as educational qualifications are concerned.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : It will be one of the qualifications.

Mr. Lalchand Navalrai : May I know from the Honourable Member whether these officers will be selected by the heads of the particular Departments or by some committee. The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : They are selected by the different Departments.

The Muhammad Yamin Khan : Are they officers already in Government service ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Yes, they will be officers already in service.

Shrimati K. Radha Bai Subbarayan : May I ask if Government will include women, as welfare of women workers is very important.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Yes.

295

* The Mines Maternity Benefit (Amendment) Bill The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar (Labour Member): Sir, I beg to move for leave to introduce a Bill further to amend the Mines Maternity Benefit Act, 1941.

Mr. President (The Honourable Sir Abdur Rahim): The question is :

“That leave be granted to introduce a Bill further to amend the Mines Maternity Benefit Act, 1941.”

The Motion was adopted.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Sir, I introduce the Bill.

296 The Factories (Second Amendment)

Bill @ Presentation of the Report of the Select Committee The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar (Labour Member): Sir, I present the Report of the Select Committee on the Bill further to amend the Factories Act, 1934.

297

† The General Budget-List of Demands—contd. Mrs. Renuka Ray (Nominated Non-Official): Sir, May I just say that I should like to move my cut motion No. 189 on the Consolidated

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. II of 1945, 8th March 1945, p. 1206. @ Ibid., 10th March 1945, p. 1311.

† Ibid., 10th March 1945, p. 1312.

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

List of Motions under Demand No. 23 under the head Department of Labour, after Mr. N. M. Joshi’s motion, during the time allotted to Unattached Members. The Unattached Members, Mr. Frank Anthony and Sardar Sant Singh and Mr. Hooseinbhoy Lalljee, have agreed to allow my cut motion to take precedence over theirs. I have also notified the Honourable the Labour Member accordingly. I hope you will kindly agree to this arrangement.

Mr. President (The Honourable Sir Abdur Rahim): Has the Government Member any objection to it ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar (Labour Member): I do not have any rights in this matter; the matter, I think, is entirely in your discretion, Sir.

Mr. President (The Honourable Sir Abdur Rahim): As the Honourable Member has got the permission of those unattached Members in whose time this motion will be moved and the Government have enough time till Monday or Tuesday to be ready with their reply to the motion, I think I shall allow the motion to be entered on the agenda.

298

* Registered Trade Unions

814. Mr. Manu Subedar : (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state how many registered Trade Unions there are in India and what the total membership is ? (b) What is the total number of persons employed in industrial concerns excluding State concerns ? (c) On what basis have Government recognized Trade Unions for State employees such as Posts, Telegraphs, Railways, etc. ? (d) What channel have Government provided for representation of subordinate services in the Civil Departments of the Government of India of their legitimate grievances, particularly with regard to dearness caused by the war ? (e) What assistance or contribution or grant, direct or indirect, has been given to labour Unions in India by the Government of India during the last five years and for what purposes ?

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. II of 1945, 8th March 1945, p. 1171.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) On the 31st March 1942, there were 747 registered unions and the membership of 455 unions out of these (which submitted returns) was 5,73,520. I regret later information is not available.

(b) According to the latest available reports the average daily number of persons employed during 1943 in private factories subject to the Factories Act, 1934, was about 21 lakhs and that in mines subject to the Mines Act, 1923, about 3 1/2 lakhs. In the Assam tea plantations the average number of workers on the books was a little over 6 lakhs during 1942-43. (c) A copy of the Rules regulating recognition of unions of industrial employees of the Central Government is laid on the table.

(d) Members of Subordinate Services in Civil Departments can represent their grievances either orally or in writing to the Heads of Departments or similarly placed officers or can approach such authorities or Government through recognised unions, staff councils or works committees, where they exist. It is also open to any aggrieved Government servant to make representations to the Head of his Department or the Government of India in accordance with the instructions laid down in Home Department Notification No. 106/38, dated the 24th August, 1938, a copy of which is laid on the table.

(e) The Railway Department grant to railway employees who are union officials certain facilities in regard to causal leave and free passes for railway journeys for attending meetings of the union. No other direct assistance is granted to labour unions as such by the Government of India.

299

* Hours of Work, Wages, etc., of Labour in War Supplies Factories @936. Mr. Amarendra Nath Chattopadhyaya : (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state the number of hours for which the labour in factories producing War supplies and in the mines, has to work at a stretch, and what wages they are paid for their labour ?

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. II of 1945, 13th March 1945, p. 1407. @ Answer to this question laid on the table, the questioner being absent.

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

(b) Do the same labour work in shifts in the same factories and mines ?

(c) What is the rate of overtime wages for labour in factories and mines ?

(d) What is charged for rations supplied to labour in factories and mines and what is the quantity allotted to each labourer in mills, factories and mines ? Is there any officer appointed by Government to watch the Distribution of ration to labourers in factories, mills and mines ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) Hours of work in Factories are regulated by sections 34,36-38 of the Factories Act, 1934 and those in Mines by sections 22B and 22C of the Indian Mines Act, 1923. In the case of factories producing war supplies exemption has been granted by Provincial Governments in several cases from all or some of the provisions. Instructions have been issued that except for short periods and in emergent conditions, the hours of work should not exceed 60 a week. Ordinarily no exemption is granted from the statutory requirements as to intervals of rest. It is regretted that more precise information is not available.

Wage rates vary considerably in different classes of factories and mines and in different units in any particular class. I regret detailed information regarding wages or general averages of wages are not available.

(b) The question is not understood.

(c) Section 47 of the Factories Act, 1934, prescribes the rates of overtime wages in factories. No Exemption has generally been allowed from the provisions of this section. No overtime work is permissible in mines except in the case of an emergency involving serious risk to the safety of the mine or the persons employed therein.

(d) There is no uniformity in regard to prices charged for rations supplied to labour in factories and mills. But it is known that several employers do supply foodgrains, etc., at less than controlled rates and a large number of controlled rates. In ‘rationed’ areas, workers receive the same scale of rationed articles as the general public. ‘Heavy workers’ are eligible for extra-rations. In addition, industrial canteens supplying cooked food now receive supplies outside the ration.

The basic standard weekly rations at controlled rates for coal-mine workers in Bihar consists of 4 seers each for the worker and adult dependent and 2 seers for a child and dal at one-fourth basic ration at a concession rate of 6 seers per rupee. In addition 1/2 seer of rice or other foodgrain is given free for each attendance at mines. Some of the collieries in Bengal have adopted the same scale with slight variations while others allow a flat rate of 6 seers per week per worker at reduced prices. In some collieries in the C.P. and Berar ration at concession rates is allowed on the scale of 6 seers a week per adult worker, 3 1/2 seers for each woman dependant and l¾ for each child. No special officers of Government apart from the usual Food Rationing Organisations have been appointed to look after distribution of ration to workers. In respect of coal mines, however, six Ration Inspectors have been appointed, three for Bihar under the Bihar Government and three for Bengal attached to the Department of Mines.

300

*Fixation of Minimum Living Wages of Labour @ 937. Mr. Amarendra Nath Chattopadhyaya : (a) Has the Honourable the Labour Member fixed the minimum living wages of labour in factories, mills and mines in accordance with the price of essential foodstuffs and clothing required by the labouring classes ?

(b) Is there any arrangement for the education of children of the labourers in the factories, mills and mines ? Is there any educational arrangement for adult labourers ?

(c) Is there any provision for holidays with pay in factories, mills and mines ? What arrangements are there for medical treatment ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) There is no legislation for fixing minimum wages for employees in factories including mills, or in mines.

(b) Educational facilities outside factories or mines whether for children of workers or for adult workers are provided by provincial authorities.

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. II of 1945, 13th March 1945, p. 1407. @ Answer to this question laid on the table, the questioner being absent.

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

The owners of some undertakings have made provisions themselves for both purposes but no detailed information in this regard is available with me. The Honourable Member is no doubt aware that there is no legal obligation in this respect of the owners of industrial undertakings.

(c) There is no legal provision requiring holidays with pay to be given. As regards non-seasonal factories there is a Bill on this subject before this House which it has referred to a Select Committee.

Apart from legal provisions many concerns give to their employees holidays with pay to varying extent.

As regards medical treatment the only statutory provisions within factories and mines relate to the provision of first aid. Some concerns run dispensaries and hospitals but apart from these the employees have to depend on the medical facilities provided by the Provincial Governments.

301

*Women Labour in Mines

938. Mr. Amarendra Nath Chattopadhyaya : (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state the number of women labour in the mines and if there is child labour in mines, i.e., minors in the mines. If so, what ages ? (b) What maternity benefits are given to women in factories, mills and mines ? How long does the Honourable Member contemplate to continue women labour in mines ? (c) What is the function of the Labour Welfare Officers in the factories, mills and mines ? What are their qualifications ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) In 1943 the number of women labour in mines was 72,403 (this figure includes those working above and underground). Figures for 1944 are not available. In accordance with the Indian Mines Act, no children are employed in mines.

(b) A comparative statement showing some of the important provisions of Legislation regarding maternity benefit at present in force (or in contemplation) is laid on the table of the House. Recent

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. II of 945, 13th March 1945, pp. 1408-09.

information from Bombay and Madras indicates that some of the mills in those provinces have increased the maternity benefit from the statutory rate of annas eight to annas twelve per day. With regard to the second part of the question, there is no intention to withdraw women completely from work in mines. (e) The functions of the Labour Welfare Officers generally are : (i) to establish close contact between the employers and the workmen in all aspects of labour relations and conditions of work ; (ii) to promote proper understanding, closer co-operation and mutual appreciation of difficulties, between the employers and the workmen;

(iii) to make constructive suggestions for workmen’s welfare, and to coordinate and supervise all welfare activities of the undertakings ;

(iv) to acquaint themselves with the grievances of the workers, and to secure redress of such grievances and generally to attempt to remove causes of friction.

As regards qualifications while academic qualifications are given due importance, the essential qualification is that the candidates should have experience of social work, preference being given to those who have successfully undergone a recognised training course like that of the Calcutta University or the Sir Dorabji Tata Graduate School of Social Work, Bombay. Comparative Statement showing some of the important provisions of Legislation regarding maternity benefit at present in force (or in contemplation) in the provinces and the mines Province Year in which passed Qualifying period (months)

Maximum period for maternity benefits (Weeks)

Rate of maternity benefits Penalty for contravention of Act by employer Bombay 1929 9 8 8 annas a day or average daily wages, whichever is less. But in the cities of Bombay and Ahmedabad 8 annas a day.

Rs.

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

Province Year in which passed Qualifying period (months)

Maximum period for maternity benefits (Weeks)

Rate of maternity benefits Penalty for contravention of Act by employer C.P. and Berar 1930 9 8 8 annas a day or average daily wages, whichever is less.

Rs. 500 Madras 1934 240 days (8 months)

within a period of one year.

7 8 annas a day. 250 U.P. 1938 6 8 8 annas a day or average daily wages, whichever is greater.

500 for first offence and 1,000 for the second and any subsequent offence.

Bengal 1939 9 8 Ditto. 500 Punjab 1943 9 60 days 12 annas a day 500 Assam 1944 150 days 8 1. In planation Re. 1 per week for the period before confinement and Rs. 1/4/- per week for the period after confinement, provided the total cash payment is Rs. 14.

500

2. In other employments Rs. 2 per week or average weekly wage or salary whichever is greater.

Mines (under the Indian Mines Maternity Benefit Act.).

1941 6 8 8 annas a day 500

* Training Indians in Labour Welfare in United Kingdom @ 939. Mr. Amarendra Nath Chattopadhyaya : Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state if it is a fact that the Labour Department is going to send a considerable number of men for training in labour welfare to the U. K. ? If so, why Government cannot train these people in India ? What would be the cost of their training scheme ? What would be the minimum qualification required of such trainees ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) It is proposed to send in the first instance, three batches of 20 officers each, of whom about 12 will be officers of the Central Government and 8 of Provincial Governments and States. Financial sanction has been accorded to the sending of 12 Central Government officers with the first batch of trainees.

In the initial stages the training and experience necessary for labour administration in the immediate post-war period cannot be acquired in India except by a lengthy process of trial and error. It is therefore, necessary to take advantages of the experience and practice of other more highly industrialised countries like the United Kingdom.

The cost to the Central Government is estimated at Rupees one lakh for the nominees in the first batch. The Provincial Governments and States will bear the charges in respect of their nominees. The minimum qualifications are that the officers should be under Government employment or designated to fill posts under Government and should have experience of welfare work or administration of labour legislation. Officers having high educational qualification will be given preference.

303

† Factory Inspectors and Labour Welfare Officers in Delhi Province

964. Shrimati K. Radha Bai Subbarayan : Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state :

(a) the number of Factory Inspectors and Labour Welfare Officers in the Delhi Province, and if they include women ;

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. II of 1945, 13th March 1945, pp. 1409-10.

†Ibid, p. 1422.

@ Answer to this question laid on the table, the questioner being absent.

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

(b) whether these officers have reported on the urgency for providing proper residential quarters for workers in factories ; and, if so, what steps Government have taken or propose to take in the matter; and (c) if the answer to (b) is in the negative, whether Government propose to call for an immediate report on the subject ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) There are two full-time Factory Inspectors and two Additional Factory Inspectors. The latter are part time. There is no Labour Welfare and Maternity Centre. Delhi Municipality, exercises the powers of an inspector under the Bombay Maternity Benefit Act, 1929 as extended to Delhi.

(b) No, the latter part does not arise.

(c) Government will take up for consideration in due course the general question of housing of industrial labour. It is not therefore proposed to call for special report in respect of Delhi Province only.

Shrimati K. Radha Bai Subbarayan : May I know, Sir, if Government will consider the proposal to appoint a whole-time Woman Welfare Officer ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Yes, I will consider that.

Mr. N. M. Joshi: What is the meaning of “due time” regarding housing ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I do not think it is a very unusual expression which requires explanation. 304

*Contract System for Engagement of Labour in Delhi Factories

965. Shrimati K. Radha Bai Subbarayan : Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state ; if labour is still engaged in factories in Delhi by contract system ; and, if so, (i) the names of the factories who have that system ; (ii) the number of workers, men and women, employed under that system, by each of those factories ; (iii) the average daily wage of the workers and the rate of dearness allowance ;

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. II of 1945, 13th March 1945, pp. 1422-23.

and (iv) if the workers receive the benefits under the Factories and Maternity Benefits Acts ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Yes, in the case of some factories. A list of such factories is laid on the table. No information is available as regards the number of workers employed through contractors but the number of such persons is small and is limited to coal handling and loading. Information in regard to the average daily wage and the rate of dearness allowance is not readily available, but dearness allowance varies from Rs. 10 to Rs. 32 per month and in factories where no dearness allowance is paid the basic wages have been increased. All factory workers receive benefits under the Factories and the Bombay Maternity Benefit Acts.

List of Factories in Delhi in which part of the labour force is employed through Contractors referred to in question No. 965, dated the 13th March, 1945.

1. Birla Cotton Spinning and Weaving Mills Ltd.

2. Mahabir Cotton Spinning, Weaving and Manufacturing Co., Ltd.

3. Delhi Cloth and General Mills Co., Ltd.

4. Latifi Printing Press.

5. Gwalior Potteries Ltd.

6. Ishwar Potteries Ltd.

7. Delhi Flour Mills Co. Ltd.

8. Delhi Central Electric Power Authority Ltd.

9. Tin Printing and Metal Works Ltd.

10. Ganesh Flour Mills (Vegetable Products Factory).

11. Aggarwal Hosiery Mills.

12. Ordnance Clothing Factory.

13. Malik and Qureshi.

14. H. S. Sidhu, 26, Daryaganj, Delhi.

15. Girdhari Lai Gauri Shanker Textile Factory.

16. Messrs. Pearey Lai and Sons (Lahore) Ltd.

17. The Premier Textile Factory.

18. Phoenix Cotton Tape Factory.

19. Sharma Textile and General Manufacturing Co.,

20. Messrs. Aggerllios and Co., 50-Garriston Bastion Road, Delhi.

21. Messrs. Aggerllios and Co., 11-B, Faiz Bazar, Daryaganj, Delhi.

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

22. British Niwar Factory.

23. Yadev Niwar Factory.

24. Delhi-Press.

25. Saksaria Printing Works.

26. British Motor Car, O. B. F. Co., Section. Shrimati K. Radha Bai Subbarayan : Since Delhi is so near New Delhi will Government assure me that they will secure this information as soon as possible ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: Yes, in due time. Prof. N. G. Ranga : In view of the admitted evils of this contract system of recruiting labour, will Government take early steps to put an end to it ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: This is not a matter in which Government is concerned.

Prof. N. G. Ranga : Is it not a fact that the Royal Commission on Labour recommended to the Government that they should take special steps to root it out ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : If my Honourable friend is referring to such labour as is employed through contractors in Government departments, that matter will certainly be considered.

Mr. N. M. Joshi : May I know whether Government consider welfare of labour recruited under contract system as not a matter of labour welfare ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : My Honourable friend is quite entitled to draw any inference he likes. 305

* Average Wage of Women in Delhi Factories

967. Shrimati K. Radha Bai Subbarayan : Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state : (a) the average wage of women employed in factories in Delhi; and whether they are paid at a daily or monthly rate ;

(b) the dearness allowance paid to them ;

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. II of 1945, 13th March 1945, pp. 1424-25.

(c) if there is any difference in the wages and dearness allowance paid to the men and women workers doing the same kind of work ; and, if so, the reasons for the difference ; (d) whether the women engaged under contract system receive the same wages and dearness allowance as those directly recruited, and the reasons for the difference, if any ? (e) whether any of the factories provide facilities for maternity and Child Welfare ; and if so, in what manner ; (f) whether any of these factories provide creches and make other arrangements for the care of the children of their employees ; and (g) if the answers to (e) and (f) are in the negative, whether Government propose to take immediate steps to compel the owners of factories to make the necessary arrangements ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) Data in respect of the average wage of women employed in factories in Delhi is not readily available. In some factories women are paid at monthly rates and in others at piece or daily rates.

(b) No detailed information is available but the dearness allowance paid to women workers ranges from Rs. 10 to Rs. 32. (c) So far as is known, there is no difference in wages and dearness allowance paid to men and women doing the same kind of work. (d) So far as is known women in factories are engaged direct and not through contractors.

(e) Two factories provide facilities for maternity and child welfare. (f) Yes, two factories provide creches. In one factory free baths are provided daily to the children of employees and under-nourished children are supplied daily half a seer of milk free of cost. In the other factory free education is given to the children of employees in the school run by the factory and half a seer of milk each is given daily to all the children free of cost.

(g) Does not arise.

Sir Vithal N. Chandavarkar : May I know whether the Province of Delhi has no Labour Department of its own ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I must have notice of that question ?

Mrs. Renuka Ray : May I ask whether it would surprise the Honourable the Labour Member to hear that there are 3,500 women

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

in the thread ball factories who do not get any dearness allowance and that men and women are not paid equal wages and is he willing to inquire into this and if he finds it is so, will he take steps immediately to rectify their grievance ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I am sure that nothing that comes from the Honourable lady will surprise me. Mr. N. M. Joshi : With reference to his reply to part (a) that the information is not readily available, may I know whether he will make very special effort to make it available ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I will see what I can do. Shrimati K. Radha Bai Subbarayan : May I know, Sir if Factory Inspectors do not send periodical reports to the Government ? How is it that Government say that they have not got the information ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : It must be going to the Chief Commissioner of Delhi.

Prof. N. G. Ranga : Sir, I wish to seek your guidance in regard to the reply given by the Honourable Member. It appears to me that it is a sort of aspersion cast upon a lady.

Mr. President (The Honourable Sir Abdur Rahim): I do not think the Honourable Member meant to cast any such aspersion. However, you ought to leave it to the lady who put the question to take care of herself.

Mr. T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar : Mr. President, especially today the replies of the Government Benches have been in a tone that is unusual and we had occasion to know about it from the Food Member. And now, Sir, the reply of the Honourable Member to the lady is this. She asked whether he will enquire. The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : No. Whether I would be surprised to know that.

Mrs. Renuka Ray : And would he be willing to look into the matter ?

Mr. President (The Honourable Sir Abdur Rahim): As regards the tone of the Honourable Member’s reply to the question it is very difficult for mc to judge for I am afraid so far as that is concerned it is not only one part of the House that is concerned. (At this stage, several Honourable Members stood up and spoke simultaneously.)

Mr. President (The Honourable Sir Abdur Rahim): Order, order.

* Re-employment of a Government Servant after Conviction

972. Mr. Muhammad Hussain Choudhury : With reference to the reply to starred question No. 407 on the 14th March, 1944, regarding re-employment of a Government servant after conviction, will the Honourable the Labour Member please state whether any enquiry was made in regard to the Government servant referred to in that question ? If so, what was the result of that enquiry, and what action was taken by Government ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Yes. Though the individual had been dismissed by the Punjab Government, that Government had permitted him to take up employment either in the Central Public Works Department or elsewhere. In view of this and the fact that he has been continuously employed in the Central Public Works Department since February, 1942, no further action was considered necessary.

Maulvi Muhammad Abdul Ghani : What was the charge for which the particular person was dismissed by the Punjab Government?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Mere assault. 307 @ Post-War Plans for Improving Labour 1043. Mr. T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar : Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state : (a) whether Government have any post-war plans for improving labour in this country ; and (b) whether they will consider the advisability of setting apart a portion of the profits of all organised industries for improving the standard of life and giving education to the labourers employed in the respective industries ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) Government’s final plans in this respect have not been formulated.

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. I of 1945, 13th March 1945, p. 1428. @ Ibid., 16th March 1945, pp. 1598-99.

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

(b) The suggestion will be considered along with others in implementing Government’s plans.

Mr. Abdul Qaiyum : When are these plans likely to be formulated ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : As soon as the investigating committee has reported.

Mr. Abdul Qaiyum : May I know if there is a time limit for this committee to report?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Yes, they have promised to give us their report sometime in August next. Prof. N. G. Ranga : Will Government consider the advisability of expediting their plans so that before the profits earned for this year are dissipated by the industries, they may be able to set apart a portion of the profits for improving labour conditions ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I shall bear the suggestion in mind.

308

* Provision of Quarters for Mines 1054. Shrimati K. Radha Bai Subbarayan : Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state : (a) if residential quarters arc provided for miners in all mining areas ; and if not, why not;

(b) if no quarters are provided, what steps Government propose to take to ensure that miners have proper housing accommodation ;

(c) if Government are aware that the sanitary conditions in mining areas are very unsatisfactory and that lack of good housing accommodation and proper sanitation is seriously affecting the health of the miners and their families and thereby production; and (d) if Government propose to consult the Tripartite Conference about the matter referred to in (c); and, if not, why not ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) Residential quarters are provided for miners in the important mining areas. (b) Does not arise.

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. I of 1945, 16th March 1945, pp. 1604-05.

(c) The Indian Mines Act lays down the primary requirements regarding sanitary and health provisions ; and the Mines Inspectorate see that they are properly observed. (d) I shall consider the suggestion.

Shrimati K. Radhu Bai Subbarayan : Since the coal situation is very grave may I ask Government if they will appoint a Committee of Experts, Medical Health and Engineering, to go into the questions mentioned in (c) ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : We have already appointed a Coal Mines Welfare Committee by whom all these questions are considered.

Mr. N. M. Joshi : May I ask what proportion of miners are housed in the houses provided in the mining areas ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I am afraid I must have notice of that question.

Mr. N. M. Joshi : The Honourable Member has made a wrong statement.

309

* Restoration of Ban on Women Working Underground in Mines 1055. Shrimati K. Radha Bai Subbarayan : Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state : (a) if Government have seen the recent report of questions and answers in the House of Commons regarding women working underground in mines ; and, if so, whether and when Government supplied Mr. Amery with the information that he stated he had called for, and what that information is ;

(b) when Government will conclude the consideration of the question of restoring the ban on employment of women underground in mines;

(c) what steps Government have taken to prevent such hardships to women ; “are low but compare favourably with the pay in other industries in India” is based on facts ; and

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. I of 19-45, 16th March 1945, p. 1605.

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

(d) if the answer to (c) is in the affirmative, the rates of pay for women workers in other industries in India ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) Government have seen the reports in question. They do not consider it in the public interest to disclose the nature and contents of their report to the India Office.

(b) The question of the restoration of the ban on the employment of women underground in mines is constantly under review. (c) and (d) What the Secretary of State said was that the rates of pay “compare favourably with those of other industries in that part of India”. The only comparable labour is that employed on the neighbouring construction works, and Government believe that the statement is not far from truth.

(e) Arrangements have been made for ante-natal and postnatal care by the Mines Board of Health in the Jharia and Ranigunj coalfields. Some of the larger mines provide independent arrangements.

(f) Women doctors and adequate staff are employed at some of the large mines. Many mines provide midwives and nurses at hospital. The second part of the question does not arise. Shrimati K. Radha Bai Subbarayan : May I ask if Government will make uniform arrangements in all mines for the welfare of women ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : We have that matter under consideration.

Mr. N. M. Joshi : In view of the fact that the House has declared itself against the employment of women below ground, will the Government of India now impose the ban in accordance with the wishes of this Legislature ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I thought that the decision of the House was more of a political demarche than a decision on merits.

Prof. N. G. Ranga : He has wilfully misunderstood the intention of the House.

Mr. Abdul Qaiyum : On a point of order, is the Honourable Member free to put such an interpretation as to impute motives in regard to a well-considered decision of the House ? If so, it will be very difficult to carry on. We have an irresponsible Government, and if they are going to talk like this……..

Mr. President (The Honourable Sir Abdur Rahim) : It is a speech you are making. On a point of order you cannot make a speech.

Mr. Abdul Qaiyum : Can he impute motives ?

Mr. President (The Honourable Sir Abdur Rahim): As I followed the Honourable Labour Member, I believe he wanted to convey to the House that the question was considered from more than one point of view including political. At any rate, I do not think he was imputting any wrong motive to the House by saying that the question has been dealt with on political grounds. Mr. Abdul Qaiyum : On a point of explanation, the official report of what the Honourable Member said may be referred to. He said it was a political demarche.

Mr. N. M. Joshi : May I know if the Government of India reconsidered the question after the vole given by this Legislature ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I have nothing to add to what I said.

310

* Dr. Krishnan’s Suggestions re Mineral Resources of India 1773. Prof. N. G. Ranga : Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state :

(a) If his attention has been drawn to the report of a lecture delivered by Dr. M. S. Krishnan to the Geology Association of the Presidency College, Madras, on the 14th of March, as reported in the Hindu, of the 14th March;

(b) What steps are being taken to obtain adequate quantities and build up reserves of copper, silver, nickel, platinum, tin, mercury, graphite and potash;

(c) what steps are also being taken to develop and exploit hydraulic (electrical) power resources in all those provinces which do not have coal mines within easy reach, so as to develop local industries;

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. V of 1946, 12th April 1946, pp. 3899-3901.

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

(d) whether any steps are being taken to draw power from wind through wind mills and to popularise the use of wind mills ; and (e) whether Dr. Krishnan’s suggestion of establishing “well-equipped laboratories” to “assess the quality and quantity of the various minerals” and also his suggestion that locally available minerals shall be utilised in preference to imports will be fully studied ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) Yes. (b) During the war Government had a proposal under consideration to build up in India a strategic stock of certain important minerals and related substances; but it did not materialise. Government are considering a revision of its which are in short supply in India.

(c) Generally speaking steps arc being taken by Provincial and State Governments to develop and exploit Hydro-Electric Power Resources to the maximum extent of technical manpower at present available for such investigations. Central Technical Power Board is already assisting in certain cases subject to limit of its present strength in man-power and do more when adequate technical staff is procured. Government of India are fully aware of the necessity for far greater measure of Hydro-Electric System development throughout the country than is at present being undertaken, particularly in areas which are remote from major coal deposits, but they consider that this cannot be achieved without a far greater body of experienced technical personnel than at present exists and to this end are doing their utmost to recruit Specialists Technical personnel on contract. (d) No special steps are being taken by Government of India to draw power from wind or to popularise use of Wind Mills at present. Government is advised that such installations, while useful in selected areas depending on Meteorological conditions, are individually productive only extremely small amounts of power and that too intermittently.

(e) The Geological Survey of India has been lately re-organised and its laboratory facilities considerably expanded. Further expansion in the direction of providing free advice and information on mineral and mining matters is being taken up. The recently planned National

Metallurgical and National Chemical Laboratories will be fully equipped to assess the quality of Indian minerals and in other ways prove of great assistance in the development of mineral industries. Domestic treatment and utilisation of India’s minerals and ores, in preference to their export in the raw conditions, is being considered by Government. A number of industrial Panels, instituted since 1944, have collected valuable information and data under this head which are being studied for the framing of a new Mineral policy.

Prof. N. G. Ranga : As regards part (c), the Honourable Member says they need many more specialists in order to develop these hydroelectric power resources. What steps are Government taking to get Indians of requisite abilities and qualifications to specialise in these directions so that their services may be made use of?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : A number of Indians have been sent abroad for training in these specialised occupations.

Prof. N. G. Ranga : As part of this new scheme of sending scholars ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : In addition to them, there are also other people who have been sent. Prof. N. G. Ranga : With reference to part (d), my Honourable friend threw cold water on the suggestion to utilise wind power by saying that it could only give intermittent power and nothing more. In view of the fact that thousands of peasants are interested in these windmills, will Government try and look into this matter a little more carefully and devise ways by which they can possibly assist our peasants and others to draw as much power as is possible from wind and thus help them ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : As I said it depends upon how much wind there is in any particular area. Prof. N. G. Ranga : There are meteorological experts and it ought to be possible for them to work out some plans and see how much power can be derived by utilising wind in different parts of the country ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Yes; we have considered that.