2. कॅबिनेट मिशन आणि अस्पृश्य : डॉ. आंबेडकर

Restriction Act to Delhi Province ? How many have been disposed of and how many are still pending in Courts ? (b) Is he aware that immediately after enforcement of the Punjab Rent Restriction Act in Delhi Municipal Area, landlords asked a number of tenants to vacate residential houses and flats for landlords’ own occupation ? Are Government aware that a large majority of such claims was false and the houses were let to the same or other parties on payment of Nazrana ? (c) Will he be pleased to give instructions for enacting Control Orders throughout Delhi Province providing that no residential house or flat should be vacated so long as the tenant pays or is willing to pay controlled rent ?

(d) Is he aware that landlords in Delhi generally refuse to carry out repairs to their property since the enforcement of Control Orders ? If so, will he be pleased to state what steps he proposes to take to penalise the landlords for refusing to attend to their property ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) The number of suits instituted upto the 28th of March 1944 was 1,444. Of these 888 had been disposed of and 556 were pending. (b) Yes. I understand that the local authorities have received complaints to this effect.

(c) Government have certain measures under consideration. (d) The local authorities have received some complaints and the matter is under consideration.

212

* Publication of Railway Labour Supervisor’s Annual Report

262. Mr. Lalchand Navalrai : With reference to the Honourable the Labour Member’s reply to unstarred question No. 43, asked on the 10th February, 1943, in regard to the publication of Railway Labour Supervisor’s annual report, will the Honourable Member ensure the publication of brief reports by way of press communiques for the information of interests concerned ? If not, why not ?

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. III of 1944, 4th April 1944, pp. 1924-25.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : The Honourable Member presumably refers to the unstarred question No. 43, asked on the 10th February 1944.

The question of issuing Press Communiques on the annual reports of the Supervisor of Railway Labour, is under consideration of the Government.

213

* Maintenance of Roads within Shahdara, Delhi

263. Mr. G. Rangiah Naidu: Will the Honourable Member for Labour please state the authority (Municipal Committee or Central Public Works Department) responsible for the maintenance in good order of roads within the Shahdara Town, Delhi Province ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: The Notified Area Committee, Shahdara, is responsible for the maintenance of roads within the Shahdara Town.

214 @ Applications under the Payment of Wages Act against Illegal Deductions, etc., on East Indian and North Western Railways

266. Mr. Ananga Mohan Dam : Will the Honourable Member for Labour please state the number of applications from Railway employees for direction under the Payment of Wages Act, for the refund of deductions and for the payment of delayed wages made since March 1938, against the East Indian and North Western Railway Administrations, respectively, together with the result of the disposal of those applications. If not, why not ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: Attention of the Honourable Member is invited to the reply given to Mr. Muhammad Azhar Ali’s unstarred question No. 222 on 30th March 1944.

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. III of 1944, 4th April 1944, p. 1925. @ Ibid., p. 1925.

* Government Contribution to Indian Labour Federation

31. Mr. Lalchand Navalrai : (a) With reference to the reply to my starred question No. 776 given on the 4th April, 1944, will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state whether the sum of Rs. 13,000 given monthly to the Indian Labour Federation has been distributed amongst the President, Vice-Presidents and other office-bearers of the Federation ? If so, in what proportion ?

(b) Has the Honourable Member looked into the audited accounts of the Federation to find out how this money has been utilized ? If not, why not ? If so, does he propose to place the audited accounts on the table of the House from the date the subsidy of Rs. 13,000 a month was paid up to this day ? (c) Is it a fact that this question came up before the International Labour Conference, which met at Philadelphia in the form of the comparative representative character of the Indian Labour Federation and the All-India Trade Union Congress, and what was the decision of the Conference ? What has been decided for the future representation of the Indian Labour on the International Labour Conference to be given to an organization not living on subsidy ?

(d) Have all the funds paid to the Indian Labour Federation been spent on the object for which they were given ? If so, will he give a brief account of the activities of the Federation in this respect ? If any part thereof has not been used for the purpose for which it was granted, will the Honourable Member please take steps to have that much portion refunded to the Government ? If not, why not ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) The grant is made to the Indian Federation of Labour as an organisation and is not distributed among its several office bearers. (b) and (d) (First part) Government are not concerned with the accounts of the Federation, but with the manner in which the Government contribution has been spent by the Federation. They are satisfied that although full and regular accounts are not available for

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. IV of 1944, 2nd November 1944, pp. 111-13.

the earlier period of the grant, this expenditure has achieved the objects, for which it was sanctioned. With effect from the 1st June 1944 the accounts will be prepared in the Federation’s office by a qualified accountant, and these will be available to audit in the ordinary way.

(c) The grant was mentioned in an objection by the All-India Trade Union Congress made to the International Labour Office as regards the credentials of the workers’ representatives in the Indian delegation. The Credentials Committee, in its report which was adopted by the Conference, asked the Conference to regard the Workers’ delegate of India and his advisers at that session of the Conference as duly accredited. The Committee’s report did not mention the grant but stated as follows :

“It does not doubt that the Government of India will continue its endeavours to make provision for the representation of both organisations in an appropriate manner at future sessions of the Conference and ventures to hope that the two organisations will reach an agreement, which will secure the effective participation in the International Labour Organisation of representatives of all sections of the Indian Trade Union movement. The Committee understands that, failing such an agreement, the Indian Workers’ delegate to the next session of the Conference will be appointed in agreement with the All-India Trade Union Congress.” (d) (Second part) The monthly grant is spent on publications of printed literature, oral propaganda, visual publicity and the disseminating of reassuring news.

Mr. T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar : May I know the object for which the grant has been given ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : The answer will be found in my answer to part (d) (second part). It states that the grant is spent on publication of printed literature, oral propaganda, visual publicity and the disseminating of reassuring news about war. Mr. T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar : Are the Government satisfied that the money given by them has been spent on those items alone ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Yes, they are satisfied. Mr. T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar: May I know if the Government are aware that part of this money has been spent on anti-Congress propaganda ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : They have no information. Mr. T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar : Will they inquire into the matter ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I have stated in my answer that with effect from the 1st of June, 1944, the accounts will be prepared in the Federation’s Office by a qualified accountant and these will be available to audit in the ordinary way. Sardar Mangal Singh : May I know whether this payment is made monthly or yearly ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I have no information on this point in front of me. I suppose it is made monthly. Sardar Mangal Singh : Is it paid to the Secretary or the President ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: To some responsible officer of the organisation concerned.

Mr. T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar : May I know what is the subject of this propaganda and the subjects of the publications issued ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : It is pro-war propaganda and pro-war literature.

Mr. Badri Dutt Pande : Will the Honourable Member be prepared to place the audited accounts on the table of the House ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : When it is audited, it will be placed on the table and will be available to the Members in the ordinary way.

Mr. Govind V. Deshmukh : What is the period covered for which there have been no accounts ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : For the earlier period; we have not got the exact accounts but we have now made arrangements that the accounts will be kept by an officer of the Audit Department. Mr. Lalchand Navalrai: What was the amount ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I am unable to give the figure.

Mr. Lalchand Navalrai: Who is responsible for not keeping these accounts in the earlier period—the Honourable Member himself or the Government or they ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I have not followed the question.

Mr Lalchand Navalrai: The Honourable Member said that for some period no accounts were kept.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: I have not said that no accounts were kept. What I said was :

They are satisfied that, although full and regular accounts are not available for the earlier period of the grant, the money has been spent in the manner in which the Government desired it should be spent.

Mr. Lalchand Navalrai: Is the Government satisfied that the money has been spent properly ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I have no reason to believe to the contrary.

Mr. Lalchand Navalrai: It is not a question of the Honourable Member believing to the contrary.

Mr. President (The Honourable Sir Abdur Rahim): The Honourable Member is arguing.

Mr. Lalchand Navalrai : What evidence has the Honourable Member got for thinking that the money has been spent properly ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I have no reason to believe to the contrary.

Mr. Lalchand Navalrai: My question was different. How is the Honourable Member able to believe one way or the other ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I have no reason to believe that the amount was not spent regularly. Sardar Sant Singh : May I know if it is only to the satisfaction of the Honourable Member himself or does he take into account that the public has to be satisfied how the money has been spent / How has the Honourable Member satisfied the public ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I do not know how I could satisfy the public but the Government which paid the money is satisfied.

Sardar Sant Singh : It is the tax payers’ money that the Government is paying out. How is the Government going to satisfy the taxpayer that the money has been legitimately spent ? (No Answer)

Dr. Sir Zia Uddin Ahmad : Was the Finance Member satisfied with the correctness of accounts ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : That question might be addressed to the Honourable the Finance Member. Mr. Lalchand Navalrai : Who is the Secretary and who is the President of this Labour Federation ? Are they paid some salary or money from this fund ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : It does not arise. If the Honourable Member will give notice, I will find out the information for him.

Mr. T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar : May I raise a point of order ? Sir Zia Uddin Ahmad asked whether the Finance Member was satisfied and the Labour Member replied that the question might be addressed to the Finance Member. The Member in charge ought to know whether the Finance Member was satisfied or not. He must give the reply. Mr. President (The Honourable Sir Abdur Rahim) : He has given the reply. I cannot ask the Honourable Member to reply in a particular way.

216

* Government Contribution to Indian Labour Federation

32. Mr. Lalchand Navalrai: (a) With reference to the reply to my starred question No. 776 given on the 4lh April 1944, will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state whether his attention has been drawn to a statement made by the President, Indian Labour Federation at Bombay in December last, at the 1st Annual Session of the Federation, that it was blackest lie that they were receiving Rs. 13,000 per month from the Government ?

(b) Has the Honourable Member’s attention been also drawn to a statement made by Mr. Jamnadas Mehta, President of the Indian Labour Federation on his departure for Philadephia to attend the International Labour Conference meeting, denying the fact of Rs. 13,000 of the Government’s subsidy ?

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. IV of 1944, 2nd November 1944, p. 111.

(c) Is it also a fact that this statement was made in reply to the Honourable the Labour Member’s statement in the House on the 4th April 1944, confirming the fact that a sum of Rs. 13,000 was being given to the Indian Labour Federation ? (d) Is it a fact that the subsidy of Rs. 13,000 is secretly paid to Mr. M. N. Roy ? If so, why is it paid to this particular individual and not to the Indian Labour Federation ? (e) Will the Honourable Member please make a brief statement as to the measures taken by the Indian Labour Federation during the period it has been in receipt of the monthly subsidy to achieve the object, e.g., to assist the Government in maintaining the labour morale ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: (a), (b) and (c) Government’s attention has been drawn to the statements referred to. From the very beginning the arrangement has been with the Indian Federation of Labour and not with any individual. The attention of the Federation was drawn to Mr. Mehta’s statements and in reply the Federation has reaffirmed the fact that the arrangement is with the Federation.

(d) As already stated in reply to the preceding question, the grant is publicly made to the Indian Federation of Labour and not personally to Mr. M. N. Roy.

(e) The attention of the Honourable Member is invited to my reply to the second part of part (d) of the preceding question. Mr. Lalchand Navalrai: The Honourable Member has stated in his reply that the money was given and Mr. Jamnadas Mehta, before he went to Philadephia, made a statement that the money was not given. How does the Honourable Member reconcile this inconsistency ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : It is not for me to reconcile the two statements.

Mr. Lalchand Navalrai: Is the Honourable Member correct or not in having made the statement ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : It is not for me to answer that question.

Sardar Sant Singh : May I know who is telling this blackest lie, either the Federation or the Government of India ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : My Honourable friend is free to draw any conclusions that he likes.

* Removal after the War of Temporary Buildings Constructed in New Delhi

50. Sir F. E. James : (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state if he is aware : (i) that Lord Linlithgow in reply to the farewell address presented by the New Delhi Municipal Committee on the 16th October 1943, made the following statement: You express anxiety about the removal after the war of the many temporary buildings which must be admitted to mar the beauty of the city. As I announced in my recent-speech to the Houses of the Legislature it is the definite policy of the Government of India to remove those buildings as soon as possible. It is the intention that all the temporary buildings that have been constructed for use as offices and hostels, etc., in the neighbourhood of the Secretariat, in the Irwin Stadium, near the Willingdon aerodrome, in the neighbourhood of Connaught Circus and in various blocks, which under the New Delhi Development Scheme had been allotted for other purposes, will be removed as soon as possible after the cessation of hostilities.

(ii) that His Excellency Lord Wavell in reply to the welcome address presented by the New Delhi Municipal Committee on the 30th October 1943, made the following statement:

I can assure you that Her Excellency and I are at one with you in the matter of the removal after the war of temporary buildings. You will recollect that Lord Linlithgow gave you an assurance on behalf of the Government of India.

(b) To what buildings do the intentions of the Government of India as announced by Lord Linlithgow now apply, in view of the construction programme undertaken, since October, 1943 ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: (a) Yes.

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. IV of 1944, 2nd November 1944, pp. 128-29.

(b) To all buildings that are of temporary construction and that will interfere with the future development of Delhi. It does not apply to the Lodi Road Officers bungalows constructed in 1941 or to most of the clerks quarters constructed recently. In particular it does not refer to the large block of clerks quarters under construction to the south of Lodi Road behind the observatory. Sir F. E. James: May I know, Sir, who will decide whether the temporary buildings now being constructed will or will not interfere with the development of Delhi ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Obviously the Government of India.

Sir F. E. James : May I also enquire if those buildings which he has referred to in his answer, which arc not included in the term ‘temporary’ buildings, are, in fact, being constructed on a permanent basis and at a standard of quality which will justify their being retained as permanent buildings ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Certainly. Mr. Lalchand Navalrai: May I know from the Honourable Member whether he considers that all the palatial buildings which have been built for Americans also mar the beauty of the city ? Are they temporary, and will they be removed after the cessation of hostilities ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : That does not arise out of this question.

Mr. Lalchand Navalrai: It does. These buildings—such as those built near the Council House—also mar the beauty of the city.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : The question did not refer to the buildings built for American troops. Mr. Lalchand Navalrai: All these buildings arc being constructed by Government……......

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : The question does not refer to the buildings built for American troops. Therefore the question does not arise.

Mr. President (The Honourable Sir Abdur Rahim) : Next question.

* Government Contribution to Associations other than Indian Labour Federation

59. Mr. Badri Dutt Pande : (a) With reference to starred question No. 776 of the 4th April 1944, regarding monthly grant of Rs. 13,000 to the Indian Federation of Labour, will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to give a reply to my supplementary question as to whether there are other Associations which are getting money like the said Federation ? (b) What is the Government control over this money to see that it is being utilised for public purposes ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: (a) No other labour Association has received financial assistance from Government for this purpose. The letter in which assistance from Government in the matter of propaganda for maintaining morale of labour was offered, was addressed both to the AllIndia Trade Union Congress and the Indian Federation of Labour. In their reply the All-India Trade Union Congress did not ask for any assistance.

(b) I would refer the Honourable Member to the replies already given to questions put by Mr. Lalchand Navalrai. 219 @ Unconstitutional Conduct of Government in Appointing Adjudicator in Trade Dispute between Shahdara (Delhi) Saharanpur Light Railway and its Employees, etc.

Mr. President (The Honourable Sir Abdur Rahim): The next motion stands in the name of Mr. Dam. He wishes to discuss “the unconstitutional conduct of the Central Government in the appointment of the adjudicator in the trade dispute between the Administration of

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. IV of 1944, 2nd November 1944, p. 134. @ Ibid., 3rd November 1944, p. 218.

the Shahdara (Delhi) Saharanpur Light Railway and its employees and further failure of the Central Government in not extending the order on the award of the said Adjudicator to the employees on the East Indian Railway by making cheap grains available at the rates charged by the North Western Railway as made available to the employees on the Shahdara (Delhi) Saharanpur Light Railway”. What is the exact complaint ? Docs he want that there must be some sort of allowances which have been awarded elsewhere ? Mr. Ananga Mohan Dam (Surma Valley cum Shillong: NonMuhammadan): Sir, the rule says that both parties to the dispute should apply for a reference to the court. That was done and the privileges that were extended to the employees of the North Western Railway were not extended to the employees of the East Indian Railway as regards the cheap grains that were made available to them.

Mr. President (The Honourable Sir Abdur Rahim) : You want the same privileges to be extended to the employees of the East Indian Railway.

Mr. Ananga Mohan Dam : Yes, Sir.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar (Labour Member): Sir, I oppose the motion and I must say that my Honourable friend is considerably mis-informed as to the facts and the circumstances. This adjudication took place under Rule 81 A.

Mr. President (The Honourable Sir Abdur Rahim): The only question before the House is whether the motion is in order. The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I am stating the facts. This adjudication took place under Rule 81A of the Defence of India Rules and the power to appoint an Adjudicator completely vests in the Government of India. Therefore there is nothing unconstitutional in the Government of India appointing an Adjudicator to settle this dispute particularly when the dispute covered a railway which runs in two provinces, namely, the United Provinces and Delhi and no single Provincial Government was entitled to appoint an Adjudicator. Therefore, I submit there is nothing unconstitutional in the action taken.

With regard to the second part, my submission is that my Honourable friend is considerably misinformed on the point because the award of the Adjudicator did not exclude any dispute with regard to the other Railway. It was certainly not open to the Government to extend the provisions of the award to a railway which was not the subject-matter

of the dispute at all. The dispute concerned only the Shahdara (Delhi) Saharanpur Light Railway and not the East Indian Railway. Mr. President (The Honourable Sir Abdur Rahim): There was no such demand on behalf of the employees of the East Indian Railway ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Certainly not, Sir. Mr. President (The Honourable Sir Abdur Rahim): The facts stated by the Honourable Member for Labour show that there is no justification for this motion. Therefore, it is disallowed. 220

* Expenditure on Buildings in Delhi @ 132. Dr. Sir Zia Uddin Ahmad : (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state how much money have the Government of India spent on buildings—permanent and temporary—in Delhi ? (b) How much was provided by (i)loan, (ii) revenue, and (iii) by land and lease arrangements ?

(c) What would happen to these buildings after the war ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) The total cost of permanent and temporary, office and residential accommodation, constructed since 1939, is Rs. 6.38 crores.

(b) The information asked for is not readily available. (c) Permanent buildings will be retained after the war. As regards temporary buildings, it is the intention of Government to demolish them as soon as practicable after the war, as and when the sites are required for the development of Delhi. 221

† Demolition of Temporary Buildings @133. Dr. Sir Zia Uddin Ahmad : (a) Has the Honourable the Labour Member suggested to his Department that the buildings will be constructed in a manner that they may be pulled down soon after the war which will involve additional expenditure of the money ?

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. IV of 1944, 7th November 1944, p. 319. @ Answer to this question laid on the table, the questioner having exhausted his quota.

† Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. IV of 1944, 7th November 1944, pp. 319-20.

(b) Are the Government contemplating to demolish temporary buildings ? What would be the cost of demolition and what would be the manner in which these buildings will be pulled down ? The Honourable Dr. B, R. Ambedkar : (a) No. The primary object of the buildings is to meet war requirements and they have been constructed in a manner and on sites most suitable to meet such requirements. This has involved in most cases temporary construction on sites which will be required for other purposes after the war. The actual order of demolition of the buildings must depend on the programme laid down for the utilisation of the sites and the development of Delhi.

(b) Yes. It is not possible at present to estimate the cost of demolition and to lay down the manner in which the buildings will be pulled down.

222

* Accommodation Constructed in Delhi and New Delhi @ 135. Sir F. E. James : Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state :

(a) for how many officers and staff (i) office, and (ii) residential accommodation has been constructed in Delhi and New Delhi by the Central Public Works Department since the beginning of the War;

(b) the total cost of (i) the temporary, and (ii) the permanent accommodation so erected;

(c) what temporary office and residential accommodation is now under construction and at what estimated cost; (d) whether any further temporary construction is under consideration, and, if so, for what purpose; and (e) what plans are being made for the removal of the temporary constructions after the war, and for the disposal and utilisation of the materials employed in their erection ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: (a) Since the beginning of the war the construction of office accommodation to the extent of

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. IV of 1944, 7th November 1944, pp. 321-22 @ Answer to this question laid on the table, the questioner being absent.

12,24,516 sq. ft. and roofed residential accommodation for 969 officers and 745 clerks has been completed. These figures do not include accommodation provided for the Far Eastern Bureau of the British Ministry of Information, the South East Asia Command and the U.S.A. Forces. Information regarding the number of officers and staff for whom the office accommodation has been constructed is not readily available.

(b) The total costs of office and residential accommodation, constructed since 1939, are (i) Rs. 5.29 crores for temporary accommodation and (ii) Rs. 1.09 crores for permanent accommodation.

(c) A statement containing the required information and also information regarding permanent accommodation under construction is placed on the table of the House. (d) No further proposal has as yet been approved. (e) It has been decided to remove the temporary buildings as soon as possible after the War. The question of the disposal and utilisation of the materials is under consideration. Statement of temporary and permanent office and residential accommodation now under construction and their estimated cost Description of accommodation Estimated cost Rs. I-Temporary—

1. Additional residential accommodation for G.H.Q. Signals Officers.

Not readily available.

2. 1000 Single Clerks Quarters at Kitchener Road 23,41,000

3. Accommodation for 367 clerks at Asmara and Masawa Lines (by alteration of existing temporary buildings).

4. 68 married clerks’ and 224 single clerks’ quarters in Tibbia College, Hostel Compound.

21,00,000

5. Accommodation for 200 single officers in existing Government Hostels.

7,80,000

6. Hostel for 160 married officers on King Edward Road Not readily available.

7. Office accommodation of 3,05,043 sq. ft. 39,65,559 I-Permanent—

1. 50 ‘D’ type and 168 ‘E‘ type clerks’ quarters on Railway land near Minto Road.

23,67,386

2. 2,468 clerks’ quarters on Lodhi Road 2,94,00,000

3. 228 married clerks’ quarters in 12 acres of land in Karol Bagh 32,00,000

4. 8 ‘E’ type clerks’ quarters in Aram Bagh 80,000

5. Three-storeyed flats for 120 clerks on Chitra Gupta Road 15,00,000

* Creation of Central Technical Power Board

139. Mr. K. C. Neogy : Will the Honourable Member for Labour be pleased to state :

(a) whether Government have any plans for the creation of a Central Technical Power Board;

(b) whether it is a fact that the Chairmanship of this Board has been offered to a former employee of the British Firm of Messrs. Merz and Melellan and that one of the two seals on the Board has been filled by an American Engineer; (c) whether his attention has been drawn to reports that Government are considering the appointment of Messrs. Merz and Melellan, and the American Bond and Share Company as consulting engineers; and, if so, whether they are true. (d) whether these two American and British firms, respectively, have acquired any interest in the erection or operation of electrical undertakings in India so far, and what they are; (e) whether it is a fact that a Committee of leading Power Engineers appointed by Government early this year have reported that India would require electrical plant to the value of Rs. 400 crores, and that Government have accepted this recommendation; and (f) whether Government would publish full details of the recommendations of the above-mentioned Committee ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) Yes.

(b) Yes, but in the case of the former he has for the last three years and nine months been in the service of the Government of India as Electrical Commissioner.

(c) Government have seen certain press reports to this effect but they are not correct as they have not yet taken into consideration the question of appointing consulting engineers.

(d) In so far as Messrs. Merz and Melellan are concerned, the reply is in the negative. Government, however, understand that the Electric Bond and Share Company of U.S.A. (and not the American Bond and Share Company) which is a holding company has substantial interest in the Tata Hydro Electric Agencies and the United Eastern Agencies

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. IV of 1944, 7th November 1944, pp. 325-26.

who are Managing Agents for the electric supply undertakings at Karachi, Broach, Nasik-Deolali and Poona.

(e) No.

(f) Steps are being taken to public the proceedings of the Conference. Mr. K. C. Neogy: When may we expect to see these recommendations ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I think in about a week’s time.

Mr. Manu Subedar : With reference to part (e) of the question, can the Honourable Member give us some idea of the figure, if it is not 400 crores ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I have not got the facts before me.

224

* Government Contribution to Indian Labour Federation

152. Prof. N. G. Ranga : Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state, in reference to the Labour Department’s letter No. L. 1882, dated the 3rd March 1942 in which Mr. M. N. Roy’s scheme for propaganda on the Labour Front, costing Rs. 13,000 per mensem was approved :

(a) whether Government have satisfied themselves that the said moneys have been spent according to the scheme; (b) whether they have received any reports from Mr. M. N. Roy or his Labour Organisation on the manner of their utilisation; (c) whether Government have drawn any conclusions upon their work and reports, if so, what they are, and whether they will be placed on the table of the House;

(d) whether there is any audit, and, if so, by whom; (e) whether the audit report at least be placed on the table of the House;

(f) whether similar subsidies arc being granted to any other individuals or organisations; if so, what they are, and what sums are being thus granted, and with what effects; and (g) whether Government propose to continue these grants; and (h) whether these grants arc grants-in-aid and, if so, on what basis ?

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. IV of 1944, 7th November 1944, pp. 337-38.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) I would refer the Honourable Member to my reply to part (d) of question No. 31 put by Mr. Lalchand Navalrai.

(b) Yes.

(c) As already stated in reply to an earlier question, Government is satisfied that it has received adequate value for the money spent. The monthly grant is spent on the publication of printed literature, oral propaganda, visual publicity and the dissemination of reassuring news.

(d) and (e) This expenditure like all other expenditure is subject to Government audit and any comments made will appear in the Audit Report.

(f) No.

(g) Yes, it is the intention to continue for the present the grant made to the Federation.

(h) They are not grants-in-aid but represent payment for certain work carried out by the Association at Government’s request. 225

* Paucity of Muslims in the Eastern Zone of Central Works Department

154. Khan Bahadur Shaikh FazI-i-Haq Piracha : (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state if it is a fact that the Central Public Works Department has been bifurcated into Eastern and Western Zones ?

(b) Is it a fact that there is under recruitment of Muslims in all grades of service in the Eastern Zone ? If so, have Government taken any steps to redress this grievance ? If so, what ? If not, why not ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) Yes.

(b) In the case of Subordinates, there was an under recruitment of Muslims in the Eastern Zone and over recruitment of Muslims in the Western Zone, if these Zones are considered separate units. But there is no deficiency in the recruitment of Muslims in the Central Public Works Department considered as a whole. In the case of Temporary Engineers there was over recruitment of Muslims in the Western Zone, and under recruitment in the Eastern Zone due lo the fact that suitable Muslim candidates were not available

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. IV of 1944, 7lh November 1944, p. 339.

in that Zone at the time the recruitment was made. This deficiency in the Eastern Zone will be made good gradually as suitable 0XVOLPV EHFRPH DYDLODEOH ‡ There is no deficiency of Muslims in any other grade either in the Eastern or in the Western Zone.

226

* Paper Annually supplied to Bureau of Public Information, etc.

39. Bhai Parma Nand : Will the Honourable Member for Industries and Civil Supplies please state the quantity of paper supplied in each year since 1941 to (i) the Bureau of Public Information, (ii) the Counter-Propaganda Directorate, (iii) Film Publicity, (iv) External Publicity and (v) Foreign Publicity ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : As the question concerns the Labour Department I am answering it. The information as far as readily available is given in the statement below:— Statement Indentor Tonnage consumed during 1-443 to 31-3-44 Tonnage consumed during 1-4-44 to 31-8-44 (i) Bureau of Public Information … 162 55 (ii) Counter Propaganda Directorate … 50 23 (iii) Film Publicity … Not available 1 (iv) External Publicity … 18 Nil (v) Foreign Publicity … 99 17 Note.—(1) The figures prior to 1st April 1944 in the case of Film Publicity and 1st April 1943 in the case of the rest arc not available. The figures relate to Financial Years.

(2) The figure shown against item No. (iv) above represents the consumption by the British Ministry of Information.

(3) The figures against items (iii) and (v) are in respect of the consumption of “Information Films of India” and “Publicity Officer (Foreign)” respectively.

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. IV of 1944, 7th November 1944, p. 341.

* Statistics re Unemployed Labour

221. Mr. Govind V. Deshmukh : Will the Honourable Member for Labour please state :

(a) if any statistics about unemployment labour in India is available; if so, what the number is, and how it is classified;

(b) if no statistics are available, when the Government intend to collect the same and classify it according to industries and under the heads “educated” and “uneducated”;

(c) if the Government arc aware that the United Nations arc taking steps to maintain a high level of employment in their countries; and if so, when and what steps this Government intend to take to keep pace with them ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) The answer to the first part is in the negative; the latter part does not arise. (b) Government at present collect statistics about employment in certain industries and they propose to take steps to improve and expedite such statistics. It is not however possible at present to collect statistics about unemployment.

(c) Government are aware that some of United Nations are making plans to sustain a high level of employment even after the war. The reconstruction plans of the Government of India will also take into consideration the necessity of maintaining as high a level of employment as is available.

Dr. Sir Zia Uddin Ahmad : May I ask if the Honourable Member is alert that in the post-war reconstruction he should see that every person in India should get an employment ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I do not follow the question.

Dr. Sir Zia Uddin Ahmad : Will the Honourable Member for Labour in the post-war scheme of reconstruction watch the interests of the labour and see that no person is out of employment ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : That should be our ideal, I accept.

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. IV of 1944, 10th November 1944, p. 546.

Mr. Govind V. Deshmukh : What is the difficulty about the collection of statistics ? I thought I had said set this Department in motion by asking a question about statistics a year ago. May I ask if the work of the collection of statistics has not yet begun ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I have just begun and I think we have made a good beginning.

Mr. Govind V. Deshmukh : May I ask what had he been doing for the last one year ? When did he make a beginning ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : We had many other things to do besides this. We have made a good beginning. Prof N. G. Ranga : May I ask if early steps be taken to initiate the gathering of statistics about unemployment in different industries ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I have already said that we have initiated the policy of collecting statistics. Mr. Govind V. Deshmukh : May I know if anything has been done in carrying out the promise made to me last time in collecting statistics ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I have already said a beginning has been made.

228

* Employment of Women Underground in Mines

239. Mr. Manu Subedar : (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state if it is a fact that the employment of women underground is against the Geneva Convention accepted by the Government of India ?

(b) Is Government aware that no such employment has taken place in the United Kingdom in spite of the stress of war requirement ?

(c) When did Government make this relaxation, and why ? (d) How long do Government expect to keep it open to employ women in coal mines ?

(e) How many women are so employed ?

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. IV of 1944, 10th November 1944, pp. 559-61.

(f) What is the wage earned by women underground, and how does it compare with the earnings of women employed in other trades ?

(g) What steps have Government taken to safeguard the health and morale of women underground in coal mines ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) Yes.

(b) Yes.

(c) August 1943 in the case of coalfields in Central Provinces and Berar, November 1943 in the case of Bengal and Bihar and December 1943 in the case of Orissa. Owing to severe shortage of male labour in these coalfields.

(d) The Government are most anxious to re-impose the ban as soon as the production of coal reaches a figure which makes possible such re-imposition.

(e) An accurate figure of the total number of women employed underground cannot be given as this figure varies from day to day. It is however estimated that about 16,000 women are at present employed underground in all coal mines in Bengal, Bihar, Central Provinces and Orissa.

(f) Women employed underground are entitled to the same wages as men on similar work. The wages of women employed underground vary from annas 0-12-0 to annas 0-15-0 a day exclusive of the free rice concession. Up-to-date information in respect of wages of women in other trades is not readily available. (g) Women are not allowed to be employed underground in galleries which are less than 5 1/2 feet in height. They are also entitled to the benefits of the Mines Maternity Benefit Act, 1941. For the purpose of enforcing the provisions of this Act and rules made thereunder, three Inspectors have been appointed. In addition, three Welfare Officers have also been appointed and a Lady Welfare Officer for mines is being appointed. Mr. Manu Subedar : Has the Honourable Member seen the report in the United Kingdom about women in coal mines in which it is stated that no woman should work with any clothing above the waist-line ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Yes.

Mr. Manu Subedar : In view of this fact that neither in the United Kingdom nor in the United Slates of America, nor in any country in

the British Commonwealth of Nations, are women employed underground in spite of the stress of war, will the Honourable Member say why he has been a party to this humiliating practice ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : On account of the shortage of coal.

Mr. N. M. Joshi : The Honourable Member stated that a woman is entitled to the same wage as a man and he said that a woman on an average gets twelve annas. I do not agree with your figure. In the coal-fields to the best of my knowledge a man and woman are paid jointly for joint production. How does the Government of India make sure what portion of the joint earning the man gives to the woman ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : It is easy to arrive at the figure by distributing the gang wages. Mr. N. M. Joshi: May I again ask the Honourable Member how does he make sure that the woman gets the same wages as the man ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: I said that a woman is entitled to the same wages as a man for the same work. Mr. N. M. Joshi : How docs he make sure that the man gives to the woman half the wage and does not take more for himself and give loss to the woman.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I do not know but I feel that the man and woman who work together arc husband and wife and I wonder whether they would be very much interested in exact mathematical distribution of their joint wages. Mr. N. M. Joshi : In view of the fact that the Honourable Member stated that he did not know, may I ask the Government of India to withdraw the statement which they have made that a woman is entitled to equal wage with the man. Is not the Honourable Member proclaiming that the woman is getting equal wage with the man ? Unless he can make sure how the woman can get equal wage with the man, he is not entitled to make a statement which in my judgment, is misleading. The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : That is only a quibble on the part of the Honourable Member. Shrimati K. Radha Bai Subbarayan : May I ask whether the Government according to the assurance given by them during the last Session have reviewed the position and satisfied themselves that it is

absolutely necessary for them to continue this cruel custom of employing women in mines ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : The Government have been reviewing the position.

Sir Cowasjee Jehangir : May I know from the Honourable Member whether there is any restriction upon pregnant women going underground ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : It is very difficult to put any such restriction, because, as my Honourable friend is aware, it is extremely difficult to discover the state of pregnancy in many women.

Sir Cowasjee Jehangir : Surely the Honourable Member realises that it is not such a difficult matter. It is done in other trades. Why can’t it be done here as well ? Why can’t a restriction be placed at least in theory, if not in practice, that no pregnant woman shall go underground ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: I might assure my Honourable friend that the matter is under active consideration. Shrimati K. Radha Bai Subbarayan : Have the Government made any arrangement for the care of infants and children of these women workers ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : There has been established a Coal-miners’ Welfare Fund and the care of children will be one of the duties of this Fund.

Shrimati K. Radha Bai Subbarayan : I want to know whether the Government have made any definite arrangement for the care of the infants and children of these women ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: That is a statutory organisation and one of its obligatory duties would be to look after the infants and children of the women workers. Prof. N. G. Ranga : May I know whether Government have taken effective steps to reduce the number of women working in the mines and increase the number of men to be employed there ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: That is also under consideration.

Prof. N. G. Ranga : Arc any steps being taken ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: Steps are being contemplated.