विभाग VIII

(b) What are the private institutions and organisations which were given grant for this purpose ?

(c) Have the Government of India set apart any amount towards grants to various non-Hindi speaking States ? The Minister of Law (Dr. Ambedkar): (a) Rs. 2,80,000 during 1949-50 and Rs. 1,05,000 during 1950-51. (b)(i) Hindi Sahitya Sammelan, Allahabad.

(ii) Hindustani Cultural Society, Allahabad. (iii) Indara Talim-o-Tarraqi, Jamia Millia, Delhi, for post literacy Hindi literature.

(iv) Akhil Bhartiya Hindi Parishad, New Delhi. (c) Government is opening a special Section in the Ministry for promoting the cause of Hindi in non-Hindi speaking States and also intends to establish a central organisation. In this connection the expenditure involved will be borne by Government.

Shri Kesava Rao: Arising out of the answer to part (b) of the question, may I know whether any non-official organisations in non-Hindi speaking areas are given assistance by the Central Government ?

Dr. Ambedkar : The facts are as I have stated in the answer to part (b).

Shri Kesava Rao : In answer to part (b), the Hon. Minister stated the names of certain organisations which are situated either at Allahabad or at Delhi. I want to know whether any organisations other than those in Hindi knowing areas are given any contribution by the Central Government. Dr. Ambedkar: I do not know if there are any such oranisations outside the places mentioned, and if there are probably they are too weak to carry on this sort of work. Shri Kesava Rao: May I know whether the Government has got any idea of the extra expenditure incurred by the non-Hindi-speaking areas in connection with the promotion of Hindi in those areas ?

Dr. Ambedkar: They might be doing it. There are State Governments which are very enthusiastic about the subject

and they spend more money. There are others which are less enthusiastic and they spend less.

Mr. Deputy Speaker : The Hon. Minister has already said that the Government is considering the desirability of opening institutions and recognising them and having a central institution also for non-Hindi-speaking areas. Shri R. K. Chaudhari: Has the amount set apart for distribution to non-Hindi States been distributed already and if so, what is the amount allotted to Assam ? Dr. Ambedkar: I do not know that this has been done. I cannot give any information on the subject now. Shri A. C. Guha: In view of the fact that the four institutions whose names the Hon. Minister has given as receiving subsidies are situated either in Allahabad or in Delhi, may we know what are their functions and what is the purpose behind the grant of subsidies to these institutions ? Dr. Ambedkar: Because we want to spread Hindi and they have branches all over India.

Shri A. C. Guha: Have they branches all over India ? Dr. Ambedkar : One can draw a legitimate inference that they have branches all over India. Otherwise they would not be given any subsidy.

Shri Shiv Charan Lal: What is the amount given to the Hindi Sahitya Sammelan during 1949-50 and 1950-51? Dr. Ambedkar: I have not got the break-up figures. Seth Govind Das: Why has the expenditure incurred on this account this year been less as compared to the year 1949-50 ?

Dr. Ambedkar: Because Hindi has spread very much. Seth Govind Das : What is the difference between the amounts granted to the Hindi Sahitya Sammelan and the Jamia Milla rspectively ?

Dr. Ambedkar: As I said, on the basis of the figures which I have before me I am unable to make any such comparison. I have given totals.

Seth Govind Das: Has the Government any information regarding the activities of those institutions and organisations which are being given the grants for the propogation of Hindi: and do the Government receive any yearly, half yearly or quarterly reports in this connection ?

Dr. Ambedkar: I think my hon. friend may legitimately presume that Government must be informed on this subject before making this contribution.

Shri Kesava Rao: May I know if any non-Hindi States have asked for a grant to promote Hindi in their States ? Dr. Ambedkar: I suppose every Government is in the habit of asking for grants.

Mr. Deputy Speaker: The Hon. Minister is giving answers which can be inferred by the Hon. Members themselves. He is obviously not in a position to give detailed answers. Members may reserve their questions for the Hon. Minister in charge when he comes here. It is no use putting hypothetical questions and getting hypothetical answers.

Seth Govind Das : I am not asking for details, but I am asking on a question of principle. Has the Government prepared any definite plan for the propagation of Hindi or is any such plan in the course of preparation, or is there no such plan at all ?

Dr. Ambedkar : I should like to leave this question to be answered by the Hon. Minister of Education. (44)

*MODE OF VOTING AT GENERAL ELECTIONS

455. Shri Alexander: Will the Minister of Law be pleased to state :

(a) whether Government have decided upon the mode of voting in the next General Elections; and (b) if so, what it is and what steps are taken to educate the common people on the same ?

* P. D., Vol. 9, Part I, 22nd August 1951, p. 553.

The Minister of Law (Dr. Ambedkar) : (a) and (b) . Under section 59 of the Representation of the People Act, 1951, at every election where a poll is taken votes are to be given by ballot in such manner as may be prescribed by rules. These rules are at present under preparation. The Films Division of the Ministry of information and Broadcasting is bringing out an educational film shot depicting scenes illustrative of the actual casting of the ballot by voters into boxes with symbols of candidates. The symbols used in this film will not be included in the list of symbols ultimately approved by the Commission. Radio talks and election rehearsals have also been arranged for the education of the voters.

(45)

*STATUTORY AND NON-STATUTORY BODIES

447. Shri S. N. Das : Will the Minister of Law be pleased to state :

(a) the number and names of statutory and non-statutory bodies of a permanent nature functioning under the administrative controls of his Ministry : giving the following information in each case : (i)the year of their constitution ; (ii) the recurring annual expenditure incurred by them; (iii) the provision for the audit of their accounts : and (iv) the method of submission of the report of their activities.;

(b) the number and names of such ad hoc Committes as were appointed by the Ministry since the 15th August 1947 and which have finished their work; and (c) the number and names of ad hoc Committees which are still functioning, giving the date of their appointments and the time by which they are expected to finish their work ? The Minister of Law (Dr. Ambedkar): (a) There is no non-statutory body of a permanent nature functioning under the administrative control of my Ministry, and the Income-

*P. D., Vol. 9, Part I, 22nd August 1951, p. 554.

tax Appellate Tribunal is the only statutory body of a permanent nature so functioning.

(i) It was constituted in the year 1941.

(ii) The expenditure varies from year to year. The budget grant for the current year is Rs. 7,87,700.

(iii) The accounts are audited by the Accountant General concerned.

(iv) Monthly reports of disposal of appeals and applications by the different Benches of the Tribunal are received in the Ministry. In addition an annual administration report is also submitted by the Tribunal to the Ministry. Information relating to the Tribunal is incorporated in the Notes on the activities of the Ministry circulated annually to members of Parliament in connection with the demands for grants.

(b) None.

(c) None.

(46)

*ELECTIONS IN SNOW-CLAD AREAS OF PUNJAB

83. Giani G. S. Mussafir: (a) Will the Minister of Law be pleased to state whether it is a fact that the areas of Lahaul and Spiti in the Punjab remain snow-clad during most of the year round ?

(b) If the answer to part (a) above be in the affirmative, what arrangement do Government propose to make for holding elections in that area simultaneously with the rest of the Union ? (c) If not, when do Government propose to hold elections in that area ?

The Minister of Law (Dr. Ambedkar): (a) to (c). From a recent report of the Punjab Government it appears that Spiti is usually snow-bound after August, and Lahaul, after October. The question whether elections in these two sparsely populated regions should be held earlier than January next, or if that is not practicable, what special arrangements should be made for holding the elections in January is being

*P. D., Vol. 9, Part I, 22nd August 1951, p. 551.

considered by the Election Commission in consultation with the Punjab Government. An announcement will be made as soon as a decision is reached.

(47)

*MANUFACTURE OF BALLOT BOXES

84. Shri A. B. Gurung: Will the Minister of Law be pleased to refer to starred question No. 2084 for 10th March 1951 and state the names of firms, with whom the Government of India have placed orders for preparing ballot boxes for the ensuing general elections in Part C States ? The Minister of Law (Dr. Ambedkar): The Chief Commissioners of all Part C States (except Manipur and Tripura) have placed orders for ballot boxes with Messrs Godrej and Boyce Mfg. Co. Ltd., Bombay, and the Chief Commissioners of Manipur and Tripura have placed orders with Messrs. Bungo Steel Furniture Ltd., Calcutta. The orders have been placed with the approval both of the Government of India and of the Election Commission.

(48)

**HINDI TRANSLATION OF ACTS

530. Shri Raj Kanwar: Will the Minister of Law be pleased to state whether all the Acts passed since 15th August 1947 have been translated into Hindi ?

The Minister of Law (Dr. Ambedkar): No Sir. But out of 274 Central Acts passed between the 15th August 1947 and the end of the Third Session of Parliament last June, 113 have been translated into Hindi.

Shri Raj Kanwar: When are the remaining Acts going to be translated into Hindi ?

Dr. Ambedkar: I am quite unable to commit myself.

*P. D., Vol. 9, Part I, 22nd August 1951, p. 562.

** Ibid., 27th August 1951, p. 659.

Seth Govind Das: Have the Government established any special section for that purpose and have some persons been appointed in order that all these Acts may be translated into Hindi ?

Dr. Ambedkar: There is a section in the Law Ministry consisting of Hindi translators who translate the most important Bills passed by Parliament.

Seth Govind Das: Have all the Acts connected with the forthcoming elections been translated into Hindi, and if not, when is that work likely to be completed ?

Dr. Ambedkar: I cannot give a definite answer. So far as my information extends I think it is contemplated to translate those Acts into Hindi.

Shri Sondhi: Will they be done before the General Elections ? Dr. Ambedkar: I believe so.

Shri Jnani Ram: May I know if the People’s Represen-tation Acts have been translated into Hindi ?

Dr. Ambedkar: I think they are under translation. Shri A. C. Guha : Have the Government any idea of translating these Acts into other Indian languages as well ? Shri Raj Kanwar: Normally how long after the publication of an Act in English is the translation in Hindi available ? Dr. Ambedkar: There is no such thing as normality in this. Shri Amolakh Chand: May I know if the People’s Representation Acts would be translated before the elections or after ?

Dr. Ambedkar: It depends upon the capacity of the different departments to undertake this task but I suppose my friend can assume that Government has sense to understand that no purpose would be served in translating them after the elections. Seth Govind Das: So far as the Acts relating to the elections are concerned, how many of them have been translated into Hindi, how many have been published and how many remain to be published and in what time are they expected to be published ? Dr. Ambedkar: My friend evidently is under the impression that there is an ocean of laws which deal with

representation or elections. We have got only two small Acts and one of them is the People’s Representation Act. I have no doubt that……… Seth Govind Das: When there are only three Acts pertaining to the elections, one big and two small ones, why is so much time being taken in their translation ? Dr. Ambedkar: Because there are only about two translators.

Seth Govind Das : Why don’t you increase their number then ?

Dr. Ambedkar: Because the Finance Minister would not give the sanction.

Shri Kamath: So far as the translation of these various Acts into Hindi is concerned may, I know if the Government in the Law Ministry or in its Secretariat has standardised Hindi with a standard vocabulary and a standard dictionary of Hindi ?

Dr. Ambedkar: I suppose standardisation of Hindi is something which has to come in the future, unless my friend wants that the Hindi which prevails in U.P. should be accepted as the standard.

Shri Kamath: No, Madhya Pradesh.

Giani G. S. Musafir: Will the Government keep it in mind that the translation should be in simple Hindi so that it may be comprehensible to all ?

Dr. Ambedkar: I think the Government will see to it. Seth Govind Das : May I suggest to the Hon. Minister that so far as the transaction of Acts is concerned, if permanent hands cannot be added to the section, at least some temporary hands may be engaged for the time being so that their translation may be expedited ?

The Minister of State for Finance (Shri Tyagi): I should like to have notice for consideration of this suggestion.

(49)

*MOCK ELECTIONS

532. Shri Sidhva: Will the Minister of Law be pleased to state :

(a) whether the Election Commissioner has held mock elections at certain places;

(b) If so, the places at which these were held and the number of voters who participated ;

(c) how much time was taken in recording the votes; and (d) whether the Election Commissioner has formulated his plans for real elections on the basis of the time occupied by such mock elections ?

The Minister of Law (Dr. Ambedkar): (a) to (d). The Election Commission directed the various State Governments in May 1951, to hold mock elections under all the assumed conditions of polling in order to obtain actual data and experience in the conduct of the forthcoming elections as also to get an idea of the average time required in recording votes. The Commission has asked the State Governments for information as regards places where rehearsals have actually been held, and so far a report has been received only from Orissa. The experience gained at these mock elections is to be taken into account in planning the actual number and the location of the polling stations. The tentative proposals of the State Governments framed on the experience of these mock elections will be published for general information and thereafter finalised in consultation with the Election Commission in the light of the suggestions, if any, received from the public.

Shri Sidhva: In that mock election how many votes were recorded in any one of the States ?

Dr. Ambedkar: I have no information.

Shri Sidhva: What was the opinion of the Election Commissioner regarding the voting by illiterate persons ? Was it very successful ?

*P. D., Vol. 9, Part I, 27th August 1951, p. 664.

Dr. Ambedkar: There is no question of literacy or illiteracy. There was no question of marking in that.

Shri Sidhva: Even then what was the general impression of the Commissioner regarding the mock election ? Does he feel……..

Dr. Ambedkar: I am afraid he has not given me the impression he has formed, Seth Govind Das : The Hon. Minister has just stated that so far a report from Orissa only has been received and that reports from other Provinces have not been received yet. Have the Government fixed any date by which these mock elections should be held in the States and reports submitted to the Government of India ?

Dr. Ambedkar: I don’t think this is a matter in which the Government could assume or arrogate to itself the authority of issuing a directive.

Seth Govind Das: No, Sir, it is not a question of authority Shri Bhatt: Will the Hon. Minister please tell whether the mock elections that were held were for the State Legislative Assemblies and the House of the People both together ? Dr. Ambedkar: I believe so.

Shri Chattopadhyaya: Was any such mock election held in any of the Centrally Administered Areas and, if so, why has no report been received?

Dr. Ambedkar: I have really no information as to in what States and whether in Centrally Administered Areas they were held, but I am sure they must have been. Shri Kamath : Did these mock elections include mock candidates and mock officers also ?

Dr. Ambedkar: I suppose they had scare-crows. Shri R. Velayudhan: From the impression gained from this rehearsal of mock election, will the next general election also be a mock election ?

Dr. Ambedkar: Very likely.

Shri Sidhva: May I know the total number of voters who participated in this mock election?

Dr. Ambedkar: I have no information.

(50)

*OBJECTIONS TO ELECTORAL ROLLS

534. Shri Kamath: Will the Minister of Law be pleased to state:

(a) The total number of claims and objections filed in respect of the preliminary electoral rolls in each of the Part “A”, Part “B” and Part “C” States ;

(b) the number disposed of so far in each State; and (c) the number of claims and objections allowed so far in each State ?

The Minister of Law (Dr. Abedkar): (a) to (c). A statement showing the position with regard to the number of claims and objections received and disposed of in the various States as on 1st August 1951, is laid on the Table of the House. (See Appendix IV, Annexure No. 17.) Shri Kamath : The statement laid on the Table shows, Sir, that in Hyderabad also 4,284 women voters were disenfranchised. Were they disenfranchised for the same reasons as women in Rajasthan were disenfranchised or for different reasons ?

Dr. Ambedkar: I am afraid I must have notice of the question.

Shri Kamath : Is it a fact that the disenfranchised women of Rajasthan or their organisations, or their representatives have recently made a representation to the Government for getting their disenfranchisement removed ? Dr. Ambedkar: Yes, they have.

Shri Kamath: Is that representation of theirs under active consideration ?

Dr. Ambedkar : We are considering it but we are not quite certain whether we can give any relief.

*P. D., Vol. 9, Part I, 27th August 1951, p. 667.

Shri Kamath: When, Sir, are the final electoral rolls likely to be published ?

Dr. Ambedkar: I suppose pretty soon—I have not got the exact date.

Shri Kamath: No date has been fixed so far ? Dr. Ambedkar: Well, it certainly will be pretty soon. Shrimati Renuka Ray : Will Government take steps to see that relief is given to the disenfranchised women in Rajasthan?

Dr. Ambedkar: The question of the relief really depends upon whether we can finish the registration of these women on the electoral rolls, allow sufficient time for raising objections and for the disposal of objections so that the electoral rolls could be finalised before the date of election. All these things hang together.

Shrimati Renuka Ray: Considering that it is due to no fault on their part and that the enumerators were not instructed properly either, does not Government think it necessary to take steps to see that this defect is remedied and those women are enlisted as voters ?

Dr. Ambedkar: Well, I am afraid we are not discussing who is at fault—we are discussing what the fact is. , Shri R. C. Upadhyaya: Is it a fact that the Prime Minister has assured that delegation of women from Rajasthan that something will be done in that direction ?

Dr. Ambedkar: I am sure about it that the Prime Minister’s assurance must be subject to the law of the land. Shri Kamath: Did, Sir, the Election Commission receive complaints that in certain areas, in certain States even dead persons were brought on the preliminary rolls ? Dr. Ambedkar: It does happen—I am sure about it. Shri Kamath: It did happen ?

Shri Sondhi : Mr. Deputy Speaker, in view of the fact that the Prime Minister is here in the House would it not be better if he made a statement in this behalf?

The Prime Minister (Shri Jawaharlal Nehru): My colleague, the Law Minister has made it quite clear that neither I nor any other member of the Government can give an assurance against the law—it is obvious. In this matter I have taken very particular care not to interfere in any way with the discretion of the Election Commissioner. All I have done is if anybody has come to me I have sent him on, or sent her on, to the Election Commissioner. I have certainly, when this matter came before me, expressed my sympathy with the fact that a large number of women voters have been left out and I think the whole House will feel that way; the Electtion Commissioner himself wants to put them in subject to the law. How that is to be done is entirely a matter for the Election Commissioner. All sympathy was there but the only assurance I gave was of my sympathy but not of how it is to be done.

Shri Kamath: As regards the electoral rolls, has the Prime Minister received a deputation from only Rajasthan women or from anyone else also ?

Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: So far as I can remember they were only from Rajasthan—there may be one or two sympathisers with them from other States.

Seth Govind Das: So far as law is concerned, it is not unchangeable. Changes always occur in the law. Then, is it not possible to do something to include these women in the lists for there is still time for the elections to take place ? The measure relating to Part C States has come up and the present session of Parliament is also going to continue for some time. Is not then some arrangement possible to remove these difficulties ?

Dr. Ambedkar: I would like to tell my hon. friend that it would require exactly not less than two months if relief is to be given from now. That means the election will have to be postponed.

Shri R. C. Upadhyaya: Cannot the Government amend by proper legislation the mention of Mrs. so-and-so in the electoral rolls?

The Minister of State for Finance (Shri Tyagi): Husband’s name cannot be amended.

Shri R. C. Upadhyaya: Not husband’s name but......... Dr. Ambedkar: The procedure for registration has been laid down by the law and that procedure must be followed. Shri R. C. Upadhyaya: Cannot it be changed ? Dr. Ambedkar: Well, the law can be changed—it is in the hands of Parliament. I don’t know how long the law will take to be amended if it is placed before Parliament. An hon. Member: Five minutes.

Shrimati Renuka Ray: If the law is changed then these could be included in the voter’s list. Surely, that is the only possible way. Therefore, will Government consider placing a Bill before Parliament ?

Dr. Ambedkar: It seems to me difficult to entertain a proposition that there should be one law for males and one law for females.

Mr. Deputy Speaker: We are arguing this matter out. Next question.

(51)

*ELECTION COMMISSIONERS IN STATES

535. Shri Kamath: Will the Minister of Law be pleased to state:

(a) whether Regional Election Commissioners have been appointed and the requisite electoral machinery set up in each of the States ; and (b) if not, by what date, it is proposed to be constituted ? The Minister of Law (Dr. Ambedkar): ( a) and (b) So far, no Regional Election Commissioners have been appointed, but the question of appointing 3 or 4 such officers is under active consideration. I pressume that by the expression “requisite electoral machinery” the hon. Member means the various officers to be appointed in connection with the actual conduct of elections. The position is as follows. Steps

*P. D., Vol. 9, Part I, 27th August 1951, p. 670.

have been tken by the Election Commission for formally appointing Electoral Registration Officers’, Returning Officers and Assistant Returning Officers for each constituency in all the States as soon as the modifications made by Parliament in the various Delimitation Orders are notified and the constituencies finally determined. The Returning Officers, after they are appointed, will appoint the Presiding and Polling Officers for each polling station. These latter appointments are expected to be completed by the end of November except that in areas, if any, where elections may have to be held in October they will be completed by the end of September, 1951. Shri Kamath: Has, Sir, any representation been received from any of the Part A or Part B State Governments to the effect that their law and order machinery or the other requisite machinery for polling and other purposes will not be able to cope with the huge work involved in the election and have they asked for any assistance in this regard so far as officers and others are concerned from the Centre ?

Dr. Ambedkar: I have no knowlede on this point. (52)

*ELECTORAL ROLLS

547. Shri Jnani Ram: Will the Minister of Law be pleased to state :

(a) the States which have completed the work of publication of electoral rolls; and (b) the cost incurred by such States and the amount contributed by the Central Government ?

The Minister of Law (Dr. Ambedkar): (a) The electoral rolls are expected to be finally published in all the States by the end of this month.

(b) Until the work of final publication of the electoral rolls is completed, it is not possible to ascertain the exact cost

*P. D., Vol. 9, Part I, 27th August 1951, p. 685.

incurred by the State Government on this account and the Centre’s share thereof. I may however mention that during the last two financial years the amount contributed by the Government of India to Part A and Part B States as their half-share of the extra expenditure incurred by the latter on the preparation of electoral rolls was approximately 2 crores and 7 lakhs.

(53)

*MOCK ELECTIONS

575. Shri Bhatt: Will the Minister of Law be pleased to state :

(a) at how many rural and urban places, Statewise, mock elections were held ;

(b) how many voters at each place participated in the mock elections ; (c) whether there were separate booths for women; (d) how much average time was taken by each voter to cast his vote in rural and urban polling booths respectively; (e) the percentage of votes cast;

(f) whether there was personation and challenged votes ; and (g) whether women took more time than men to cast their votes in rural and urban areas ?

The Minister of Law (Dr. Ambedkar) : ( a) to (g) The information is being collected by the Election Commission and will be laid on the Table of the House in due course. (54)

*ARTICLE 171 (b) OF THE CONSTITUTION

576. Shri Deogirikar: (a) Will the Minister of Law be pleased to state whether qualifications as equivalent to that of a graduate for electorates to elect members of the Legislative Council of a State as mentioned in Article 171( b) of the Constitution of India have been prescribed by or under any law made by Parliament ?

* P. D., Vol. 9, Part I, 27th August 1951, p. 698.

(b) If so, what are those qualifications ? (c) If not, when will such qualifications be prescribed ? The Minister of Law (Dr. Ambedkar): ( a) The hon. Member’s attention is invited to section 27( 3) of the Representation of the People Act, 1950, which authorises the State Governments to specify, with the concurrence of the Election Commission, the qualifications which shall be deemed to be equivalent to that of graduate of a University in India.

(b) and (c) Notifications laying down the qualifications referred to above have been issued by the Governments of all the States which are to have Legislative Councils, namely, Bihar, Bombay, Madras, Punjab, Uttar Pradesh, West Bengal and Mysore. A copy each of these notifications is available in the Library of the House.

(55)

*MAPS OF CONSTITUENCIES

748. Shri Raj Kanwar: Will the Minister of Law be pleased to state whether Government intend to publish separately for each of the Part A, Part B and Part C States one or more maps showing the delimitation of constituencies as finally determined for purposes of General Elections ? The Minister of Law (Dr. Ambedkar): The State Governments have been requested to prepare maps showing separately the Parliamentary and Assembly constituencies for each State as finally determined.

Shri Raj Kanwar: When will these maps be available to the public ?

Dr. Ambedkar: As soon as they are ready, I suppose. Shri Raj Kanwar: When is that going to be, Sir ? Dr. Ambedkar: Before the Elections take place.

*P. D., Vol. 9, Part I, 4th September 1951, p. 941

Mr. Deputy Speaker: The Hon. Minister, if he has got any more definite information, he may give the House. The House expects him to give a resonable period. Dr. Ambedkar : All I can say is to request my hon. friend to go and contact the Election Commissioner. His office will probably give all the information that he needs. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The Hon. Minister is expected to be in touch with the Election Commissioner. It is his portfolio. There is no good generally giving such answers. The hon. Member can draw his own inferences. But, he expects that the Government will be able to say, within a month or two months and so on. All the three answers do not appear to be definite at all.

Dr. Ambedkar: I have no information with me on the point.

Prof. Ranga: Mr. Deputy Speaker, my objection is that any of the Hon. Ministers should get up and ask us to go to one of his subordinates and get the information is really derogatory to the dignity of the House.

Mr. Deputy Speaker: I think the Hon. Law Minister only meant that whether information could be had from official sources, they must exhaust all that before taking the time of the House with respect to such matters as are available. Dr. Ambedkar: I am sure about it, that my hon. friend Prof. Ranga goes to officials on many other occasions without feeling any loss of dignity.

Prof. Ranga: This sort of answer raises another controversy. We may or we may not go. But, it is not for the Minister to ask us when we ask for information that we should go to one of his subordinates and get that information, instead of himself getting the information. Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: Will the Hon. Ministers themselves not resent if Members went for information to the officers subordinate to them apart from the question of the dignity of Members ?

Mr. Deputy Speaker: I will pass on to another question. It is usual to refer to books and officers before coming to the House.

Shri A. C. Guha : We have been issued a circular that we should not go and see the officers. How can the Hon. Minister ask us to go to an officer and get the information ? It is the function of the Minister to supply the information. (56)

*TRIBAL CHRISTIANS AND GENERAL ELECTIONS

770. Shri S. C. Samanta: Will the Minister of Law be pleased to state :

(a) whether tribal Christians (Adibasis) will be debarred from contesting the coming general elections from Scheduled tribes constituencies as Scheduled tribes candidates; and (b) if there be no bar, whether their elections will be questioned in and taken up as election disputes by the Election Tribunals ?

The Minister of Law (Dr. Ambedkar): ( a) The hon. Member is in effect asking me for an interpretation of the relevant legal provisions contained in the Representation of the People Act, 1951, and the Constitution (Scheduled Tribes) Order, 1950. A candidate for a seat reserved for the scheduled tribes in any State must be a member of a Scheduled tribes as listed in the Scheduled Tribes Order of the President. I cannot say whether the persons referred to in the question as “tribal Christians” are members of any scheduled tribe or not. As regards part ( b) of the question the attention of the hon. Member is invited to section 100 of the Representation of the People Act, 1951, which contains the grounds on which an election may be called in question. In particular, he may see sub-section (2), clause ( c).

*P. D., Vol. 9, Part I, 4th September 1951, p. 972.

(57)

*OFFICERS IN THE MINISTRY OF LAW

227. Prof. K. T. Shah: Will the Minister of Law be pleased to state:

(a) the number of ( i) Gazetted, and of ( ii) non-Gazetted officers, clerks and Class IV servants in his secretariat, on: (i) 15th August 1947, ( ii) 31st March 1948; (iii) 31st March 1949; (iv) 31st March 1950; ( v) 31st March 1951; and (b) the number of officers, clerks and Class IV servants, appointed temporarily in the first instance and subsequently ( i) made permanent, (ii) retired or ( iii) retrenched, during each of the years 1947-48 (post-partition), 1948-49, 1949-50 and 1950-51 ? The Minister of Law (Dr. Ambedkar): The information asked for is not readily available. Its collection will involve a disproportionate expenditure of time and labour.

(58)

**LIST OF POLLING STATIONS

1069. Pandit Kunzru: Will the Minister of Law be pleased to state :

(a) whether the Election Commission has asked the Bombay State Government or the District Magistrates to prepare a list of the polling stations and issued instructions that the lists should not he shown to any party before they are finally approved : (b) whether the Bombay Government have in spite of the Election Commission’s instructions, issued orders to the District Magistrate of any districts that the preliminary lists should be shown to the Vice-Chairman of Rural Development Boards : (c) whether these Vice-Chairmen are members of District Congress Committees and in many cases their Chairmen ; and (d) If the answer to parts ( a) and ( b) above be in the affirmative, what action Government propose to take in the matter ?

*P. D., Vol. 9, Part I, 12th Septembert 1951, p. 1270.

**Ibid., 17th September 1951, p. 1273.

The Minister of Law (Dr. Ambedkar): ( a) No. The Election Commission did not issue instructions that the lists of polling stations should not be shown to any political party before final approval. On the contrary, the Commission suggested to the State Governments that their tentative plans regarding polling stations might be circulated to the different political parties, and also given as much publicity as possible. A copy of the Commission’s letter dated 26th May, 1951 to all State Governments is placed on the Table of the House for information. ( See Appendix VII, Annexure No. 9). (b) The Government of Bombay issued instructions to the Collectors that the tentative plans as approved by Government should be shown to the political parties and members of the public. These plans are being kept at the District Headquarters and Taluka Headquarters in that State for inspection, and the Collectors have been asked to consider carefully the suggestions or criticisms from the public. With a view to facilitating their work the Collectors, who are Chairmen of the Rural Development Boards, were also instructed by the Government of Bombay to show the plans to the Vice-. Chairmen of those Boards.

(c) Some of the Vice-Chairmen of the Rural Development Boards in Bombay are members of District Congress Committees, and in a few cases their Chairmen. (d) Does not arise.

Pandit Kunzra: May I ask whether as a matter of fact the preliminary lists of polling stations have been shown to other persons than the Vice-Chairmen of the Rural Development Boards in the Bombay State ?

Dr. Ambedkar: I have no such information.

Pandit Kunzru: Why was it necessary then for the Bombay Government to ask the District Magistrates to show these preliminary lists of polling stations to the Vice-Chairmen of the Rural Development Boards if the instructions issued by the Election Commission were of a general character relating to all political parties ?

Dr. Ambedkar: That was probably because it was necessary to collect the organised opinion of the people in that area.

Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: Is it a fact that the lists of the electors are arranged alphabetically for each constituency? Dr. Ambedkar: I am afraid I have not seen the electoral roll myself. Therefore, I cannot say. Probably, the hon. Member has more information.

Pandit Thakur Das Bhagava: Is it a fact that since there are no separate lists for each polling station, persons living in the area of a particular polling station will have to travel several miles before they will be able to vote in that constituency ?

Dr. Ambedkar: I do not think so. I think all people would be informed as to the number of voters who have to go to a particular polling station.

Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: All these lists are arranged alphabetically. This means that there will be no separate list for each polling station. Unless there is a separate list for each polling station, people will not know where they have to go and they will have to travel several miles. Dr. Ambedkar: I am not aware that the voters’ lists are arranged alphabetically.

Mr. Deputy Speaker: I think they are arranged alphabetically and a list is hung in each polling station. Dr. Ambedkar: I will make enquiries about it. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Anyway, it does not arise out of this question.

Pandit Kunzru: May I ask the Law Minister whether instructions of the kind issued by the Election Commission to the Bombay State have been issued in respect of other States also ?

Dr. Ambedkar: That letter was a general letter issued to all the States.

Pandit Kunzru: Can he tell me whether these preliminary lists of polling stations have been shown to members of the political parties in the other States ?

Dr. Ambedkar: My friend is assuming that there are political parties everywhere. If there are any political parties, I am sure the State Government will take steps to show the

lists to them in the same way as they are showing to the others.

Pandit Kunzru: My hon. Friend cannot be such a simpleton as to believe that there is only one political party in the country.

Dr. Ambedkar: The others are speculative perhaps. (59)

*LEPROSY

1074. Shri Sivan Pillay: Will the Minister of Health be pleased to state :

(a) whether Government have got accurate statistics regarding persons affected with the disease of leprosy, statewise; (b) if so, the State in India which has the highest percentage of the incidence of the disease in relation to population; and (c) the steps taken by Government to combat this dreadful disease ?

The Minister of Law (Dr. Ambedkar) : ( a) and (b) As often stated before, no accurate statistics are available. (c) The matter is primarily the concern of State Governments. The Government of India have had for some time a plan to establish a Central Leprosy Teaching and Research Institute in the country whose objects it will be to undertake research into the problems relating to leprosy, to promote field studies for the application of the results of research, to train leprosy workers, to give technical advice and guidance for anti-leprosy work and to participate actively in the organisation and development of leprosy institutes in States. Financial stringency alone has kept the scheme from maturing. But voluntary bodies and some of the States are doing good work among sufferers from the disease. Research is also going on.

Shri Sivan Pillay: May I know, whether Government are aware that a Central Leprosy Relief Committee has been formed by Gandhi

*P. D., Vol. 9, Part I, 17th September 1951, p. 1378.