2. The Cabinet Mission and the Untouchables: by Dr. Ambedkar

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) In order to improve the supply of filtered water, five additional filters were installed this summer, and two large pumping sets have been ordered from England and are expected in India in October. The scarcity of unfiltered water was due to a sudden fall in the level of the Jumna. In order to raise the level of the water, a series of bunds was put up across the channel. The situation has since improved and there is now no shortage.

(a) Experiments for training the river so as to divert its dry weather channel along the right bank, on which the pumping station is situated, are being conducted at the Central Hydrodynamic Research Station, Poona. A committee of experts recently appointed to investigate the matter have submitted their report which is being examined.

(b) No arrangements for cooling the water are feasible. Mr. Lalchand Navalrai : Why is it not feasible ? Is it because it is too cold here ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : The Honourable Member is entitled to draw his own conclusions. Mr. Lalchand Navalrai : Is it unusually cold here ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I leave my Honourable friend to draw his own conclusions. Pandit Lakshmi Kanta Maitra : Why don’t you utilise the Defence of India Act for this purpose.

89

* Muslim Assistant Estate Officers in Central Public Works Department

71. Mr. Nabi Baksh Mahi Baksh Bhutto : (a) Will the Honourable Member for Labour be pleased to state the number of Assistant Estate Officers in the Central Public Works Department ?

(b) How many of them are Musalmans ?

(c) Is the ratio of Muslims maintained ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) Four ; one post being vacant at present.

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. III of 1943, 28th July 1943, p. 139.

(b) None.

(c) Not at present, but the ratio of Muslims will soon be adjusted as the Federal Public Service Commission has been asked to recruit a Muslim for the Vacant post. 90

* Construction of New Buildings at Ghaziabad

72. Sardar Sant Singh : (a) Will the Honourable Member for Labour be pleased to state if his attention has been drawn to the leading article in Dawn of the 29th June, 1943, under the caption “Thick Waste”? If so, what is the reason for building these houses at Ghaziabad and not near about New Delhi ? (b) Is it a fact that, these houses will be temporary constructions for the period of war ? If so, is he aware that accommodation for the Gazetted personnel of the Government of India is inadequate in New Delhi ? If so, why do not Government propose to construct houses which may be of use to the Gazetted staff after the war ?

(c) What use will Government make of the houses at Ghaziabad if these are not required by the Defence Department after the war ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) Yes. But the facts stated in the article are not entirely correct. (b) and (c). The matter is under consideration, and no definite decision has been reached.

91 @ Scheme of Sickness Insurance for Industrial Workers

127. Mr. Nabi Baksh Illahi Baksh Bhutto : (a) Will the Honourable Member for Labour be pleased to state if the Scheme of Sickness Insurance for Industrial Workers has been completed ?

(b) When is the Scheme expected to come into operation ?

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central). Vol. III of 1943, 28lh July 1943. p. 139. @ Ibid., 2nd August 1943, p. 268.

(c) Does the Honourable Member propose to lay on the table a copy of the Scheme ?

(d) Is it also proposed to lay on the table the opinions expressed by Provincial Governments on the Scheme ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) No.

(b) The Government of India have appointed a Special Officer to prepare a draft scheme of Sickness Insurance for workers in selected industries. The scheme is now under preparation but it is not possible at this stage to say when it will come into operation. (c) and (d) These points will be considered later on. Legislation will be necessary, and the House will of course be fully informed of the details of the scheme.

Mr. Lalchand Navalrai : How far has the scheme been completed ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : A preliminary report has been received.

Mr. Lalchand Navalrai : When approximately is this going to be completed ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I cannot say anything about it.

Mr. Lalchand Navalrai : Say two years or one year ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Within two months’ time.

Mr. Lalchand Navalrai : Thank you.

92

* Fixing Rents Lower than Pre-war Rental Value in Babar Road Area

132. Sardar Sant Singh : (a) Is the Honourable the Labour Member aware :

(i) that rents for middle class tenement houses in the Babar Road Area have been fixed by the Rent Controller at Rs. 42-8-0 per mensem from the 1st July, 1942 ; and (ii) that this rent is less than the rental value of Rs. 560 per annum assessed by the New Delhi Municipal Committee for levying house-tax on these houses ever since 1938-39 ?

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. III of 1943, 2nd August 1943, p. 271.

(b) What are the grounds for fixing the rents lower than the prewar rental value as assessed by the New Delhi Municipal Committee in 1938-39 ?

(c) How do Government justify the levy of house-tax at an excessive rate for all these years ?

(d) If the assessment was not excessive, how do Government justify the order of the Rent Controller ?

(e) Is he aware that the house-owners in this area are mostly middle class people who have been hit hard by this arbitrary decision of the Rent Controller ?

(f) What rents are fixed by the Rent Controller for houses having approximately a similar residential accommodation near the Pusa Road in Qarol bagh Area, and in any other composite area in New Delhi ?

(g) Is he aware that while controlling rents of houses in Calcutta, the Bengal Government have allowed an increase of ten per cent. in rents over the rents prevailing in 1941 ? (h) Does he propose to allow a similar increase in rents in New Delhi ? If not, why ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) (i). There are several different classes of tenements in the Babar Road Area carrying different rents. The rent of Rs. 42-8-0 is for one class tenements only.

(ii) Yes.

(b) The rents are fixed under clause 8 of the Delhi House Rent Control Order, 1939, under which the Rent Contoller has to fix the fair rent of a house having regard to the prevailing rates of rents for the same or similar accommodation in similar circumstances during the twelve months prior to the 1st September, 1939. (c) This is not a matter for Government.

(d) In view of the reply to part (b) above, the question does not arise.

(e) Yes, but Government have no reason to believe that the house-owners have been hit hard.

(f) There are no houses in Qarol bagh having the same or similar accommodation.

(g) I have no official information on the point. (h) No, Government do not see any justification for it. Sardar Sant Singh : Will the Honourable Member make inquiries as to the difference in rental value assessed by the New Delhi Municipal

Committee and the rent which is allowed to the owner and see that some justice is done to the landlords and the rents are increased ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I cannot do that, because the fair rent is fixed by the officer. There is no reason to supose that his judgment is in any way miscarried by any circumstances which he ought not to take into account. 93

* Prohibition of Constructions Involving Use of Cement, Steel and Timber

135. Sir Abdul Halim Ghuznavi : (a) In view of the Government order announced in some places by beat of drums prohibiting constructions of all descriptions involving the use of cement, steel and timber, will the Honourable Member for Labour be pleased to state whether this order applies to constructions which are nearing completion and do not require cement, steel and teak wood ?

(b) If the answer to (a) is in the negative, will the owners of such premises be granted permission for making and fitting the requisite panels for doors and wood-sashes for windows out of mango wood and other materials already in their possession, provided that the authorities are satisfied after verification that all the materials required are already in their stock ? (c) If the answer to (b) is in the affirmative, do Government propose to issue instructions to that effect to all provinces ? If not, will all constructions, irrespective of whether they involve the use of cement, steel and timber, be kept in abeyance now ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) to (c) In order to curtail the demand for labour and materials and to check inflationary tendencies, the Government of India have asked the Provincial Governments to do what they can to discourage the construction of buildings, etc., by local bodies and private persons. These are general instructions and the Provincial Governments are at liberty to give effect to them in whatever manner they consider suitable having regard to the conditions prevailing in the Province. I would therefore suggest that

*Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. III of 1943, 2nd August 1943, pp. 273-74.

the Member approaches the Provincial Government whose orders he desires to have clarified.

Mr. Lalchand Navalrai : May I know if these things have been prohibited because they are being supplied for war purposes or they have been prohibited for some other reason ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : For war purposes. Sir Abdul Halim Ghuznavi : May I inform the Honourable Member that the District Magistrate of Mathra has refused permission to an Honourable Member of this House to complete his house. He wanted to put in only 22 panels of mango and 22 panels for doors. That was the only thing to be done, but the District Magistrate refused to give the permission.

Mr. Chairman (Syed Ghulam Bhik Nairang): That is a statement of facts and not a question.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I am glad to receive the information.

Sir Abdul Halim Ghuznavi : Is it a fact that the Commissioner of Agra Division was approached in this connection and he said that if the gentleman concerned could convince the District Magistrate that he already had in his possession the necessary wood to complete the house, he would give him the sanction. He convinced the District Magistrate that he had the ncessary wood in his possession and yet he refused to give him the permission. Mr. Chairman (Syed Ghulam Bhik Nairang) : Again it is a statement and not a question.

Mr. Lalchand Navalrai : May I know if the half-completed house or three-fourths completed houses have also been prohibited from being built?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I have no information on the point.

Mr. Lalchand Navalrai : Have any exceptions been made in this matter?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : We have given general instructions to the provinces.

Mr. Lalchand Navalrai : They have not been given any discretion ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I am sure the discretion will be exercised with due care. Mr. Lalchand Navalrai : Then the Central Government has not given any instructions yet ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I cannot say at this stage. 94

* Cost of Raising Buildings in New Delhi and Simla Connected with War Activities

144. Sardar Sant Singh : Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state the total cost incurred by the Government of India in raising buildings in New Delhi and Simla, separately, connected with the War activities since September 1939 ? Was any expense incurred on behalf of Americans ? If so, how much, and who met it ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : The following expenditure had been incurred up to the end of March 1943 : (i) New Delhi—Rs. 1,55,14,629.

(ii) Simla—Rs. 24,65,137.

(iii) On behalf of Americans—Rs. 38,47,916. (This has been debited to Defence Services Estimates under Reciprocal Lease/Lend arrangements.)

Maulana Zafar Ali Khan : May I know if after the war all these temporary buildings will be demolished ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Yes.

Sardar Sant Singh : Which Government meets the expenditure of Rs. 38,47,916 on Americans ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : The government of India under the reciprocal Lease/Lend arrangements. Sardar Sant Singh : Will this expenditure on the tax-payers of India be later on debited to the accounts ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Notice.

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. III of 1943, 2nd August 1943, p. 282.

* Factories Adversely Affected by the Former Standard Time @151. Qazi Muhammad Ahmad Kazmi : (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state which factories (and in which part of the country) were adversely affected by the former standard time which used to be observed in India ? (b) What is the number of such factories, and what is the estimated amount of loss to those factories caused by the keeping up of the standard time?

(c) Do Government propose to consider the advisability of restoring the old standard time ? If so, why not ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) Government have no information that factories in any part of India were adversely affected by the former standard time. (b) Does not arise.

(c) The reply to the first part is in the negative. The reasons for the advance of time have been explained by Government in a Press communique a copy of which is laid on the table of the House. No grounds have been shown for a restoration of the old standard time.

Press Communique The existence of two different standards of time in India is for purposes of defence undesirable and since the 15th May this year a uniform standard time has been observed throughout the country. In deciding what that standard should be the Government have had to consider on the one hand the convenience of that portion of India which lies to the West of meridian 82½ and already enjoys sufficient daylight saving and on the other the requirements of the eastern Provinces where it is essential to avoid any electricity overload due to overlap of factory demands with those of domestic, office and street lighting and where extra daylight may be needed to mitigate the effect of obscuration. Since in the summer months there is an adequate margin of daylight in the eastern areas, it was considered that by an adjustment of office

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. III of 1943, 2nd August 1943. p. 285. @ Answer to this question laid on the table, the questioner being absent.

and factory hours the requirements of those areas during the summer could be adequately met if Standard Time were fixed at 5½ hours ahead of Greenwich Mean Time throughout India and a unform time was introduced accordingly as from the 15th May. The Government of India undertook, however, to consider the question of a further change before the winter season commenced. It has now been decided that to insure the continuance of sufficient daylight in the eastern Provinces it is necessary to make such a change in the near future, and that Indian Standard Time throughout the country should be 6½ hours ahead of Greenwich Mean Time. The change will take effect from midnight or the 31st August—1st September from which date clocks will be advanced by one hour. It is fully realised that the advance of clocks by one hour must inevitably cause some inconvenience to areas lying west of meridian 82½ but it is believed that by an adjustment of hours of work, this inconvenience can be overcome and that when the public becomes accustomed to the new time no great difficulty will be experienced. 96

* Fall in Output of Coal

28. Mr. K. C. Neogy : (a) Will the Honourable Member for Labour please state if it is a fact that since January, 1943, the output of coal in British India has gone down ? If so, did Government make any enquiry about the reason for this fall in output, and what practical steps do Government propose to take to improve the situation ?

(b) Is it a fact that the stock of coal was much less at collieries in British India on the 31st of May, 1943, than the stock that was reported to exist on the 31st of December, 1942 ? If so, what are the reasons for such a deterioration ? (c) Is it a fact that sufficient number of wagons was not available between the 1st January, 1943, and 31st of May, 1943, even to carry away the raisings of that particular period? If so, what is the explanation for the reduction in the stock ?

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. III of 1943, 2nd August 1943, p. 286.

(d) Is it a fact that about 30 collieries in the Kajora field in the Province of Bengal with a raising of approximately over ten lakhs of tons a year, are going to be shut down for want of wagon facilities due to the military authorities using the portion of the line serving these collieries, although it is possible to carry the military goods from the Ondal Junction by the military lorries ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) No. The second part of the question does not arise.

(b) The stock figures reported to exist on the 31st December, 1942, are not reliable. Improved methods of collecting figures of stocks have since been introduced. It is believed that stocks have not deteriorated but increased between 31st December, 1942, and 31st May, 1943.

(c) Answer to the first part is in the affirmative. Answer to the second part is in the negative.

(d) No. Kajora field is worked by several pilots. It is presumed that the question refers particularly to the area worked by Okhra Nos. 1 and 2 Pilots. Approximately 30 collieries are worked by these two Pilots. The capacity for coal of these two Pilots is 100 wagons which represents approximately 2,000 tons of coal per day or 7,20,000 tons per annum. Both these Pilots have been getting preferential suplies of wagons as they have large orders from B and A Railway. With the wagon position as at present prevailing in the Bengal and Bihar fields, it is extremely unlikely that even if the capacities of these Pilots were increased the collieries would get more than 100 wagons a day. For the Military Depot 20 wagons in the capacity of Okhra No. 2 Pilots have been provided, but as explained above this arrangement is not likely to cause these collieries to shut down. The Government of India are not aware whether the military can carry goods from Ondal Junction by military lorries.

97

* Concessions re Oil Resources in British India to British or American Firms

30. Mr. K. C. Neogy : Will the Honourable Member for Labour be pleased to refer to starred question No. 441, dated the 30th March, 1943, and lay on the table a statement giving the names of British or

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. III of 1943, 2nd August 1943, p. 287.

American firms that may have secured concessions (including exploration or prospecting licences) in respect of the potential oil sources in any part of British India, together with a summary of the principal terms and conditions thereof in each case ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : The attention of the Honourable Member is invited to the statement placed on the table of the House today giving the information promised in answer to the supplementaries on question No. 441, dated the 30th March, 1943.

98

* Summary of Proceedings of the Third Meeting of the Standing Labour Committee The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar (Labour Member): Sir, I lay on the table a copy@ of the Summary of Proceedings of the third meeting of the Standing Labour Committee held on the 7th and 8th May, 1943.

99

† Sikhs in High Salaried Posts in the Central Public Works Department

209. Sardar Sant Singh : Will the Honourable Member for Labour please state the number of posts carrying salaries of Rs. 400 per mensem or over in the Central Public Works Department and in Sections other than the Central Public Works Department ? How many of these posts are held by Sikhs ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : There are 60 posts on salaries rising to Rs. 400 or more and 82 posts on salaries of Rs. 400 and upwards. Of the total of 142 posts, 6 are held by Sikhs.

It is not understood to which office the Member refers by the words ‘Sections other than the Central Public Works Department.

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. III of 1943, 2nd August 1943, p. 292. @ Not included in these Debates, but a copy has been placed in the Library of the House.—Ed. of D.

† Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. III of 1943, 5th August 1943, p. 426.

* Establishment Branch of the Office of the Chief Engineer, Central Public Works Department

†210. Sardar Sant Singh : (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member kindly state if it is a fact that a separate Branch to deal with establishment matters and to facilitate the work of selection board in the office or the Chief Engineer, Central Public Works Department, was set up recently ? (b) What is the total number of staff working in this Branch, and how many of them are Hindus, Muslims and Sikhs ? (c) Is it a fact that none of the members of the staff including the Superintendent has any experience of establishment matters ? (d) Why were not experienced people already working in the Establishment Branch considered suitable for employment in this Branch ?

(e) Is it a fact that establishment matters of the Muslim personnel are dealt with quickly while those of other communities lie unattended to for an indefinite period ?

(f) Do Government propose to investigate an enquiry into the communal work done by this Branch ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) Yes.

(b) Total No. of staff 12 Hindus ... ... 5 Muslims ... ... 6 Sikhs ... ... Nil Indian Christians ... ... 1 (c) No; two assistants and three clerks were taken from the Establishment Branches.

(d) More staff could not be removed from the Establishment Branches without detriment to the work there.

(e) No.

(f) No.

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. III of 1943, 5th August 1943, p. 426.

†Answer to this question laid on the table, the questioner having exhausted his quota.

* Representations Against the Appointment of One Bakshi Madan Singh in the Central Public Works Department @211. Sardar Sant Singh : (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state if it is a fact that one Bakshi Madan Singh was appointed as an Assistant in the Works Section, Central Public Works Department, against a vacancy reserved for ‘other minorities’ ?

(b) Was he asked at the lime of recruitment to produce a certificate as to the bonafides of his being a Sikh in accordance with the procedure laid down by the Home Department ? If not, why not ?

(c) Are Government aware that Bakshi Madan Singh has been “Petit” 3 or 4 times before he joined service, and that he kept hair to deceive the Government to get a job reserved for the Sikh Community ?

(d) Is it a fact that a number of representations were made to the Additional Chief Engineer and the administrative Officer by the local Sikh organisations and none of these has even been acknowledged so far?

(e) Do Government propose to replace this person by a bonafide Sikh?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) Yes.

(b) No. The Department had no doubts as to his bonafide at the time of his appointment.

(c) No. Government had no information to this effect. (d) Yes. They are being acknowledged.

(e) Only, if it is established that he embraced Sikhism within a year of his application for employment, or being a Keshdhari had become patit before his employment.

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. III of 1943, 2nd August 1943, pp. 426-27. @ Answer to this question laid on the table, the questioner having exhausted his quota.

* Commercial Aspects of Indian Spring-Waters

50. Mr. K. C. Neogy : Will the Honourable Member for Labour be pleased to refer to the unstarred question No. 92, dated the 30lh March 1943, and make a statement : (a) explaining whether the commercial aspects of the Indian spring-waters referred to therein have been examined, and whether the arrangements to bottle the waters for trial have been completed ; and (b) indicating the location of the different springs which have so far been tried and found satisfactory ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) The commercial aspects of Indian spring-waters are still under examination. The arrangements to bottle the waters for trial are complete.

(b) The springs occur on private land, as negotiations are still in progress with the proprietor of the land, Government do not consider it desirable to disclose the location of the springs at this stage.

103 @ Survey of Hydro-Electric Possibilities in India

274. Mr. T. T. Krishnamachari (on behalf of Mr. R. R. Gupta) : (a) Will the Honourable member for Labour be pleased to state if Government have directed a survey of Hydro-electric possibilities in this country ? If so, when was the survey last carried out, and by whom ?

(b) Do not Government consider that, in view of the generally accepted policy of conservation of India’s better class coal resources, hydro-electric developments should be actively encouraged, particularly in the United Provinces, the Punjab and the Central Indian States, which are situated away from the sources of India’s coal supply ? If so, in what form do Government propose to encourage such development ?

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. III of 1943, 5th August 1943, p. 434. @ Ibid., 12th August 1943, p. 642.

(c) What is the installed generating capacity of the State Hydroelectric schemes developed by the United Provinces and the Punjab Governments, Native States like Mysore and Travancore, and the Tatas in Bombay, and what is the unabsorbed load available from these schemes at present ?

(d) Does the Honourable Member propose to lay on the table a statement showing from their latest data the possible head works site of the new hydro-electric schemes in India, together with the power likely to be obtained from each of the generation schemes ?

(e) Have Government thought out any possibility of converting Railways to be driven electrically in those localities where cheap power can be obtained ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) A brief survey of major hydro-electric possibilities throughout India was made about the end of 1941 by the Electrical Commissioner with the Government of India ;

(b) Promotion of hydro-electric schemes is primarily the concern of Provincial Governments and States. The Central Government is, how ever, fully alive to the desirability of hydro-electric development and the post-war organisation of the electricity supply industry including hydro-electric development is engaging the attention of the Reconstruction Committee of Council.

(c) and (d) During war-time it is not in the public interest to publish the information asked for. In any case, as already stated, the promotion of hydro-electric schemes is primarily the concern of the Provincial Government and States. (e) Yes, the question has been considered from time to time and is always kept in view, but the availability or cheap power is only one of the factors which would determine the conversion of a particular section to electric traction.

104

* Inclusion of certain Details in the Working of the Payment of Wages Act

289. Mr. Muhammad Azhar Ali : (a) Will the Honourable Member for Labour please state if it is a fact that the Report on the working of the Payment of Wages Act on Railways does not indicate

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. III of 1943, 12th August 1943, p. 654.

the particulars of the applications presented to and disposed of by the authorities appointed under the Payment of Wages Act ?

(b) If the reply to part (a) be in the affirmative, does he propose to take steps for the inclusion of the particulars of the applications with a review thereon in the next reports ? If not, why not ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) At present what the Honourable Member suggestes is a fact. (b) I shall consider the suggestion.

105

* Sulphur Mined in Baluchistan and Firms Supplied with Sulphuric Acid Manufacturing Plants

290. Mr. T. T. Krishnamachari (On behalf of Mr. R. R. Gupta) : (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state the quantity of sulphur mined in Baluchistan by the Utilisation Branch of the Geological Survey of India, and the total amount so far spent in such mining operations ? (b) Is it a fact that the deposit of sulphur in the present site of mining in Baluchistan, available for further exploration, is small ? In any case, what is the estimated tonnage of the unworked deposit at the moment ?

(c) Is it a fact that the Department of Supply has notified the sugar mill concerns in India that no supply of sulphur can be arranged for the mills in connection with the next crushing season ? If so, what is the reason for such a notice being given to the sugar mills ? If no such notice has been given, how were supplies of sulphur secured for the sugar mills in the last two crushing seasons, and how is it proposed to arrange the suply during the next ?

(d) Is it a fact that a large quantity of sulphur-dioxide (SO2) gas is wasted as a by-product in connection with the operation of copper smelling furnance in India ? If so, is it a fact that such gaseous waste

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. III of 1943, 12th August 1943, pp. 654-55.

can be easily converted into sulphuric acid ? Did Government examine the posibility or such a source of supply of sulphuric acid, and, if so, with what result ?

(c) Is it a fact that since the outbreak of the war, the Department of Supply imported a number of sulphuric acid manufacturing plants ? If so, what is the number of such plants, and how have they been disposed of ? Do Government propose to lay on the table a statement showing the firms to whom such plants, if any, have been made available, and the special reason for which the plants were supplied to them in each case ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) It is not in the public interest to state the quantity of sulphur mined. The total amount so far spent on Baluchistan Sulphur Operations is Rs. 11,85,000.

(b) No. It is not in the public interest to disclose the estimated tonnage of unworked deposits.

(c) No. Supplies of sulphur for the sugar industry during the last crushing season were met partly from American imports and partly by depiction of reserve stocks. Sugar mills are being supplied with Baluchistan sulphur ore which they will refine individually or alternatively have refined at a central plant set up with Government sanction and the resultant pure sulphur will be used in the sugar mills during the crushing season. Any deficit on estimated requirements will be met from American imports arranged by the Supply Department.

(d) Sulphur dioxide is produced as a by-product during the smelting of copper in India. It occurs in the flue gases in a highly diluted form with other gases and its efficient conversion into sulphuric acid is difficult. The possibility of using this source of supply for production of sulphuric acid and sulphur was examined very early in the war but was not proceeded with as the processes called for the import of complicated and expensive machinery with technical personnel and even then successful recovery was problematic.

(e) No. Full information regarding the proposed import of plants from America was given by the Honourable the Supply Member in answer to unstartred question No. 47 on 4th August 1943.

* Lead Mine in Jawar in Udaipur State

291. Mr. T. T. Krishnamachari (on behalf of Mr. R. R. Gupta) : (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state if it is a fact that a lead mine is being worked in Jawar in the Udaipur State by the Utilisation Branch of the Geological Survey of India ? If so, what is the. amount of money spent so far in the working of this mine, and what is the average percentage of lead and zinc occurring in the ores extracted from this mine ?

(b) Have Government any information or lead deposits occurring in any other part of India, and, if not, what fraction of India’s lead requirements is likely to be met from Jawar source alone ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) Yes. A sum of Rs. 6½ lakhs has been spent upto the end of June 1943. The average percentage found in exploration up to date is 2 per cent lead and 8 per cent zinc.

(b) Yes, the most likely occurrances known at present are at Chauthka-Barwara in Jaipur State.

107 @ Wolfram Deposits Discovered in a Bengal District

292. Mr. T. T. Krishnamachari (on behalf of Mr. R. R. Gupta) : Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state if it is a fact that some wolfram deposits have been discovered by the Geological survey of India in a Bengal District ? If so, what is the quantity of wolfram so far won from this source, and how has it been disposed of?

The Honourable Dr. B. R, Ambedkar : Yes. During wartime it is not in the public interests to disclose the quantity of wolfram won. The ore is disposed of through the Supply Department (Directorate-General, Munitions Production).

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. III of 1943, 12th August 1943, p. 655. @ Ibid., p. 655.

* Functions of the Labour Welfare Advisers and Labour Advisers

297. Mr. Amarendra Nath Chattopadhyaya : (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state the functions of the Labour Welfare Advisers and Labour Advisers appointed in the Labour Department ?

(b) How many such officers have been appointed so far ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) The functions of the Labour Welfare Advisor and his Deputy and Assistants are to report to Government and advise on all such meters relating to the welfare of industrial labour in India as Government may direct.

The duties of the Labour Adviser were to advise on all important matters of labour legislation and administration, and in particular the manner in which labour problems that were under consideration or might arise had been or were being dealt with in England.

(b) There is one Labour Welfare Adviser, one Deputy Labour Welfare Adviser and 7 Assistant Labour Welfare Officers. One Labour Adviser was appointed from December 1942 to June 1943.

There is at present no Labour Adviser Mr. Amarendra Nath Chattopadhyaya : Will they advise on dearness allowance ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : No. Sir.

Mr. T. T. Krishnamachari : Does the Labour Adviser, of the Honourable Member, as distinct from the Labour Welfare Adviser, represent the employees’ interests.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Not at all Sir 109 @ Steps for Eliminating Immediate Causes of Industrial Disputes

298. Mr. Amarendra Nath Chattopadhyaya : (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state what effective steps for

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. III of 1943 12th August 1943 p 657 @ Ibid., pp. 657-58.

eliminating the immediate causes of industrial disputes to ensure the unhampered war production have been taken so far, both in the Government’s own war-factories and in private factories engaged wholly or partly on war-orders ?

(b) Have Government decided to adopt an all round policy of having all disputes referred to the adjudication before workers are compelled to go on a strike ?

(c) Do they propose to advise all Provincial Governments to do so ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) Government have attempted to secure fair conditions for labour both in their own factories and in private employment. Where disputes arise the methods of conciliation and adjudication are available. (b) and (c) No. The general policy of Government is to resort to adjudication if and when the method of conciliation has failed. The present machinery for the settlement or disputes has been evolved in consultation with Provincial Governments and general uniformity of practice has already been achieved. 110

* Demolition of a Mosque on Ashoka Road, New Delhi Mr. President (The Honourable Sir Abdur Rahim) : I have received notice of motion of adjournment from Maulvi Abdul Ghani who wants to discuss a definite matter of urgent public importance, namely, the demolition of a mosque in the premises of quarter No. 9, Asoka Road, by the Government Officers and men of the Public Works Department.

When did this take place ?

Maulvi Muhammad Abdul Ghani (Tirhut Division : Muhammadan): It was done about ten days ago but I got information about it only last night.

Mr. President (The Honourable Sir Abdur Rahim): The Honourable Member is not the only person interested. If it is an urgent public matter it is for every one to take notice of it immediately. Why was no notice taken before ?

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. III of 1943, 21st August 1943, p. 897.

Sir Muhammad Yamin Khan (Agra Division : Muhammadan Rural): Sir, it did not come to the notice of any Member of the House until yesterday, because it was done in one of the Government quarters.

Mr. President (The Honourable Sir Abdur Rahim): Then how did the Honourable Member come to know at all about it ? Sir Muhammad Yamin Khan : Some passers-by came and informed some Members and made a complaint. Mr. President (The Honourable Sir Abdur Rahim): Have Government anything to say about this ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar (Labour Member): Sir, I have had no notice of this motion. Evidently my Honourable friend wrote a letter giving notice of this adjournment motion to the Department of Education, Health and Lands, which has been just now handed over to me.

Mr. President (The Honourable Sir Abdur Rahim): I want to know the facts.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I have made inquiries from my Department and I am told that they do not know of any such incident at all. As I said, I have not had sufficient time to make inquiries in the matter, and I have no reason to suppose that any such demolition has taken place. However, if my Honourable friend chooses to put a short notice question. I will make inquiries and let him have the information he wants.

Mr. President (The Honourable Sir Abdur Rahim): I think that will be the best course.

Mr. H. A. Sathar H. Essak Sait (West Coast and Nilgiris : Muhammadan): Then this motion can be held over. Mr. President (The Honourable Sir Abdur Rahim) : If a short notice question is put I will consider it later. Sir Muhammad Yamin Khan : In any case the short notice question cannot be put today and can only be asked on Tuesday if the Assembly sits till then.

Mr. President (The Honourable Sir Abdur Rahim): Better ask a short notice question.

* Demolition of a Mosque on Asoka Road, New Delhi Maulvi Muhammad Abdul Ghani : Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state :

(a) Whether he is aware of the existence of a Mosque in Asoka Road in Government Quarter No. 9 ;

(b) Whether the said Mosque has partly been demolished by Public Works Department men at the instance of a Public Works Department Official;

(c) Whether the demolition work was stopped due to the agitation by Muslims;

(d) What steps the Government have taken to prevent such demolition and whether they have taken steps against the person at fault; if so, with what result; and (e) What steps Government are going to take to remedy the harm done to the building ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) Yes—of an old, dilapidated and unused mosque.

(b) No. One of the arches on the northern wing of the mosque accidentally collapsed while felling a tree against which it was leaning. The request for the removal of the tree came from the present occupant of the house-Major Anwar who complained that the tree was obstructing the light.

(c) No.

(d) There was no demolition by the Central Public Works Department, and so this question does not arise. (e) It is an old dilapidated building, and no harm to it has, therefore, been caused.

Sir Muhammad Yamin Khan : When the tree was cut, why the precaution was not taken to see that the arch which was leaning against the tree might be kept in a safe condition ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I have no reason to suppose that due precaution was not taken against such an accident.

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. III of 1943,25th August 1943, p. 980.

Sir Muhammad Yamin Khan : Even the efficient Engineers of the P. W. D. could not protect one arch ? Am I to take it with all due precaution, they were unable to protect one arch ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Such an accident may happen notwithstanding the due care and attention. Sir Muhammad Yamin Khan : When the mosque exists in a quarter which is occupied by the Government and which was open to the public before the Government built their quarter, is it not the duty of the Government to see that it is properly repaired and kept in proper order?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I do not suppose there is any reason to believe that this mosque was in actual use either before or after the quarter was built. Maulana Zafar Ali Khan : Will Government give us an assurance that the demolished portion of the mosque will be restored by necessary repairs ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : It is quite unnecessary to do it because it was not used as a mosque nor is it a protected monument.

Sir Muhammad Yamin Khan : Will the Honourable Member make a way for the public to get into this mosque ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : As I said, it is no longer in use as a mosque.

Sir Muhammad Yamin Khan : May I know the reason why it is not in use as a mosque ?

Mr. President (The Honourable Sir Abdur Rahim): The Honourable Member is arguing.

Sir Muhammad Yamin Khan : I want to know whether the Government is going to make it accessible to the public so that it can be used as a mosque ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : It has never been in use as a mosque.

Maulana Zafar Ali Khan : Has the Government any objection if I carry out the repair at my expense ?

The Honourble Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : The Honourable Member may make an application and the Department will consider it. Seth Yusuf Abdoola Haroon : Is it not a fact that the occupant of this quarter did object to the cutting of the tree ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : The position is just the reverse. The tree was cut at the instance of the occupant of the quarter.

Seth Yusuf Abdoola Haroon : Will the Honourable Member make a reference to the occupant of the quarter ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I have no reason to suppose that the information I have given is not correct. Nawabzada Muhammad Liaquat Ali Khan : What reason has the Honourable Member to suppose that the information given by an Honourable Member of this House is not correct ? Mr. President (The Honourable Sir Abdur Rahim) : That is arguing.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I have official information. I don’t know how reliable is the source of the Hon. Member’s information.

112

* The Indian Trade Unions (Amendment) Bill The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar (Labour Member): Sir, I beg to move for leave to introduce a Bill further to amend the Indian Trade Unions Act, 1926.

Mr. President (The Honourable Sir Abdur Rahim) : The question is :

“That leave be granted to introduce a Bill further to amend the Indian Trade Unions Act, 1926”

The Motion was adopted.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Sir, I introduce the Bill. 113 @ Equalization of Rates of Allowance for Men and Women under the Indian War Injuries Scheme

47. Mr. N. M. Joshi : (a) Has the attention of the Honourable the Labour Member been drawn to the fact that the difference made between the rates of allowances paid to men and women under the War Injuries Schemes in Great Britain has been removed some time back so that men and women receive allowances at the same rates ?

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. IV of 1943, 8th November 1943, p. 30. @ Ibid., 9ih November 1943, p. 68.