2. The Cabinet Mission and the Untouchables: by Dr. Ambedkar

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

451

*Damodar Valley Development Scheme 1503. Babu Ram Narayan Singh : Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state:

(a) the present stage of the Damodar Valley Development Scheme; (b) if the preliminary survey is complete;

(c) the total amount of cultivated land acquired and to be acquired in all the districts concerned ;

(d) the number of villages in all the districts to be affected; (e) the number of people (i) who will be deprived of their homes ; (ii) who will be deprived of their lands, and (iii) who will be deprived of both their homes and lands ;

(f) if there is any scheme for the rehabilitation of the people to be ejected;

(g) if he is aware of the feelings of the people of all the localities to be affected and also of the resolution of the Bihar Provincial Congress Working Committee on the scheme; and (h) if he has considered the desirability or otherwise of postponing the working of the scheme till popular Governments begin functioning in Provinces and at the Centre ?

The Honourable Dr. B.R. Ambedkar : (a) A premilinary investigation is in progress.

(b) No.

(c), (d) and (e). Detailed information on these points is now being collected.

(f) No scheme has yet been finally drawn up but the matter is under the active consideration of Government and I can asure the Honourable Member that Government will keep prominently in mind the necessity of adequate rehabilitation of those dispossessed. (g) Government have seen some press communications on this subject.

(h) Only preliminary investigations are now carried out and Government do not consider it desirable to postpone them or such action as may appear necessary on a consideration of them.

*Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. V of 1946, 3rd April 1946, p. 3422.

Babu Ram Narayan Singh : What will be the process of the rehabilitation of the people ?

The Honourable Dr. B.R. Ambedkar : I am unable to make any definite statement.

Prof. N.G. Ranga : Will not the Honourable Member keep in mind the necessity of all those people, especially the peasants who will be ejected, for the grant of alternate pieces of land, where they can carry on their agriculture ?

The Honourable Dr. B.R. Ambedkar : I certainly have that in mind.

Babu Ram Narayan Singh : May I know whether two or three years’ notice will be given to these people who will have to leave their homes in the acquired area, so that they may build their houses in the new places and occupy them when they have to vacate their original homes ?

The Honourable Dr. B.R. Ambedkar : I cannot commit myself to any particular period, but I am prepared to say that we shall certainly give long enough notice.

Babu Ram Narayan Singh : May I know, Sir, whether as a part of this Damodar Valley development scheme some big embankments are to be constructed on rivers in Santal Parganas District ? The Honourable Dr. B.R. Ambedkar : I am unable to say that at this stage.

Maulana Zafar Ali Khan : Arising out of part (c) of the question may I know whether it is a fact that many villagers have been turned out of their homes in Assam, their houses have been demolished, they have been put to great inconvenience and their lands also have been taken away ?

The Honourable Dr. B.R. Ambedkar : I do not see how this arises out of this question.

Mr. President : He says in connection with the scheme. The Honourable Dr. B.R. Ambedkar : That does not affect Assam at all.

Babu Ram Narayan Singh : May I know whether this scheme has been finally decided upon ?

The Honourable Dr. B.R. Ambedkar : Yes, Sir.

Prof. N.G. Ranga : Is it not a multi-purpose scheme ? The Honourable Dr. B.R. Ambedkar : Yes, Sir.

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

452

*Strike in Indian School of Mine, Dhanbad 1504. Babu Ram Narayan Singh : Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state whether there is a strike in the Indian School of Mine at Dhanbad ? If so, why, and has the strike come to an end ? If so, how ?

The Honourable Dr. B.R. Ambedkar : The Honourable Member’s attention is invited to the reply given to Starred Question No. 1265, on 26th March, 1946.

Prof. N.G. Ranga : Have the Government come to any conclusion regarding the recognition of the diplomas about which they were complaining ?

The Honourable Dr. B.R. Ambedkar : The matter is under consideration.

453 @ Number of Indians Employed in International Labour Office 1511. Prof. N.G. Ranga : Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state :

(a) the number of Indians employed by the I.L.O. at its headquarters;

(b) the total amount spent by the I..L.O. on Indian members of the I.L.O. offices and that contributed by the Government of India to the I.L.O.

(c) whether there are any proposals to strengthen the I.L.O. office in India and to open its Branches in all the provincial capitals to keep the I.L.O. in touch with Provincial Governments;

(d) whether Government are doing any thing to increase India’s representation at the I.L.O. headquarters, and if so, with what results; and (e) whether Government propose to send some members of their secretariat to the I.L.O. headquarters for a few months in order to enable them to study the Labour Legislation and its working countries and be in touch with the I.L.O. work ?

*Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. V of 1946, 3rd April 1946, p. 3429. @ Ibid., p. 3429.

The Honourable Dr. B.R. Ambedkar : (a) It is understood that three Indians are employed at the International Labour Office headquarters. In the Indian Branch of the International Labour Office the personnel of which is wholly Indian, there is a Senior Officer with a sanctioned strength of seven members for 1946.

(b) The expenditure by the International Labour Organisation on Indian members in their various office for 1946 is as follows : Headquarters ... ... 60,000 Swiss Francs or Rs. 45,900 approximately Indian Branches ... ... Rs. 44,640 India does not directly contribute to the I.L.O. funds but a portion of the contribution paid by India to the League of Nations is given to the I.L.O. The table below gives the details : YEAR Total Contribution to Leage of Nations (gold francs)

Portion allotted to the International Labour Office (gold francs)

1943 ... 893,044,24 300,731,88 1944 ... 815,024,64 300,960,18 1945 ... 1,99,033,39 895,200 (Swiss Francs)

1946 ... 1,302,938,67 Not known Information obtained from Director, International Labour Office Indian Branch. N.B.—Exchange rates :— Rs. As. Ps.

1 gold franc ... 1 1 5 approximately.

1 Swiss franc ... 0 12 4 (c) Government have no information.

(d) The answer is in the affirmative.

(i) A few suitable candidates arc being selected by Federal Public Service Commission (India) for appointment to the International Labour Office ministerial staff at Montreal.

(ii In the higher posts the question of the appointment of an Indian as an Assistant Director is under consideration.

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

(c) The question is under consideration.

Shri Mohan Lal Saksena : What is the rupee value of a gold franc ?

The Honourable Dr. B.R. Ambedkar : It is Rs. 1-1-5. This information has been given to us by the International Labour Office but I cannot vouch for it.

Prof. N.G. Ranga : With regard to part (c), will Government consider the advisability of suggesting to the I.L.O. to open its branches in all the Provincial Capitals to keep the I.L.O. in touch with Provincial Governments ?

The Honourable Dr. B.R. Ambedkar : I will look into the matter.

Prof. N. G. Ranga : Is it not a fact that the Asiatic countries and also the coloured countries are not given adequate representation on the governing body of the I.L.O. ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : That is the general impression but I cannot exactly say what the situation is. Prof. N. G. Ranga : What steps do Government propose to take to sec that India as wcl! as the other coloured peoples arc given adequate representation on the governing body of the I.L.O. The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : We are always pressing the claim of India. .

Prof. N. G. Ranga : With what result? Has there been any improvement at all ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : We hope some day we will be successful.

Prof. N. G. Ranga : Is it not a fact that our position on the governing body is weaker man it used to be three years ago ? The Honourable Dewan Bahadur Sir A. Ramaswami Mudaliar : May I answer this question ? My recollection is that both on the Government side and on the labour side there has been representation for a number of years. Our late colleague in this House, Mr. Joshi, was a member of the governing body for well over 10 or 12 years. Sir Atul Chatterjee was a member of the governing body on behalf of the Government and Chairman of the governing body on one occasion. The present High Commissioner, Sir Samuel Ranganathan is a member of the Governing body and was Chairman of the constitution making body of the governing body at the last International Labour Conference. At present, I believe, after Mr. Joshi ceased to

be a member of the governing body during the last one year, there is no representative of the employees from India on the governing body. That is the only degeneration of the position, if it can be called a degeneration. So far as the Government is concerned, the High Commissioner is a member of the governing body. I cannot say anything about other coloured peoples but certainly India has been throughout a member of the governing body both from the Government side and from the employees side. Sjt. N. V. Gadgil : Is it not a fact that certain changes have been recommended in the constitution of the governing body and they have been laid on the table of the House ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : That is a matter which will come up for discussion in connection with a Resolution I propose to move.

Diwan Chaman Lall : When is the Honourable Member moving it?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : In the course of this Session.

Shri M. Ananthasayanam Ayyangar : Now that there is a proposal to abolish the League of Nations, is there a proposal to have direct contribution to the I.L.O. from the Indian exchequer ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I cannot say. That will be a matter for the I.L.O. to decide.

454

* Strikes in Central and Provincial Government Presses 1526. Prof. N. G. Ranga : Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state :

(a) for how long the strike in the Government of India Press at New Delhi has been going on;

(b) the grievances and demands of the workers which were brought to the notice of Government.

(c) when these demands were brought before Government and what action was taken thereon to satisfy the legitimate needs of the workers ;

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. V of 1946, 3rd April 1946, p. 3443.

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

(d) how many workers are now involved in the strike; (e) whether it is a fact that this strike has spread to or similar strikes are in progress in, other Presses of the Central or Provincial Governments;

(f) whether it is a fact that such a strike is in progress in Bombay, vide page 4 of the Hindustan Times, of the 21st March, and (g) what steps are being taken by Government to come to a settlement with the workers ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) The strike lasted for 19 days from the 6th March to 24th March, 1946. (b) The demands were :

(1) Fixation of a fair living wage at a rate not lower than Rs. 50 p.m.

(2) Revision of existing scales of pay on an equal footing in all the Government of India Presses.

(3) Revision of the Contributory Fund Rules so as to bring them into line with State Railways Provident Fund and grant of gratuity on retirement or death.

(4) Increase in dearness and war allowances.

(5) Revision of leave Rules.

(6) Reduction in working hours from 48 to 40 a week. (7) Allowance to the men working in the night shift. (8) Increase in the class rates of pieceworkers. (9) Casual leave and holidays with pay to pieceworkers. (10) Retention of temporary workers.

(c) and (g) The demands were brought to Government’s notice in February last. The last five demands have since been conceded in part and the concessions announced. The first five demands, being of a general nature affecting all classes of Central Government servants, cannot be granted without due consideration and will have to wait the recommendations of the Pay Commission in regard to salaried hands. Government have also granted the following additional concessions to all pressworkers.

(i) The increased rates of dearness and war allowances would be given retrospective effect from the 1st July, 1944 instead of from 1st January, 1946 to all those now drawing them. (ii) Half the dearness allowance will count as pay for the purpose of calculating the amount of pension of all workers in receipt of such allowance.

(iii) Those classed as inferior will draw pension up to the limit of half average pay.

Government also propose to appoint an Officer on special duty to report on the anomalies existing in the pay and conditions of service of the various categories of pressworkers in the different Government of India Presses, (d) 775 industrial workers were involved.

(e) Yes, to the Government of India Forms Press, Aligarh, the employees of which are on strike from the 15th March, 1946. The industrial workers of the Government of India Press, Calcutta and Forms Press, Calcutta, also gave notice of a strike but it has not yet been resorted to.

(f) Government have no information other than what has appeared in the Press. The Press in question is under the Provincial Government.

455

* Requisitioning of Residential Property in New Delhi 1530. Diwan Chaman Lall : (a) In view of the War Department’s declared intention to proceed as fast as possible with the de-requisitioning of private residential properly as stated in this House in the reply to starred question No. 924 en the 13lh March, 1946, will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state whether the Labour Department intend to refrain likewise from requisitioning any more private residential property in New Delhi for accommodating the officers of the Central Government ?

(b) Do Government still intend to take possession in New Delhi of any residential property (for example No. 4, Ratendone Road) which was previously requisitioned by Government but which was not actually taken over by them? What are the reasons, if any, why it is still considered necessary to obtain possession of such requisitioned property ?

(c) In view of the general de-requisitioning programme, have Government considered the advisability of allowing the existing tenants of the residential accommodation referred to in part (b) above to

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central) Vol. V of 1946 3rd April 1046 p. 3445.

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

continue in occupation thereof? If so, do Government propose to issue early orders accordingly ? If not, why not ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) Since the cessation of hostilities with Japan, Labour Department have given up requisitioning fresh residential property for accommodating officers of the Central Government.

(b) It is not possible to lay down any general rule. Where Government have permitted one of their servants to occupy a bungalow already requisitioned for the pool, Government must have the right to use the bungalow for the pool. No. 4, Ratendone Road is a case of this type.

This is necessary to secure the best utilization of accommodation in the pool for Government purposes. (c) Each case will have to be decided on its merits from the point of view of the best utilization of accommodation in the pool. 456

* Mica Mines Labour Welfare Fund Bill The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar (Labour Member) : Sir, I beg for leave to introduce a Bill to constitute a fund for the financing of activities to promote the welfare of labour employed in the mica mining industry.

Mr. President : The question is :

“That leave be granted to introduce a Bill to constitute a fund for the financing of activities to promote the welfare of labour employed in the mica mining industry.”

The motion was adopted.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Sir, I introduce the Bill.

457 @ Factories (Amendment) Bill The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar (Labour Member) : Sir, I move :

“ That the Bill further to amend the Factories Act, 1934, as reported by the Select Committee, be taken into consideration.”

*Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. V of 1946, 3rd April 1946, p. 3457. @ Ibid. p. 3457.

I do not think it is necessary at this stage for me to make any very lengthy observations on the Bill as it has emerged from the Select Committee. The Bill had originally seven clauses. Out of the seven clauses it is only four clauses to which the Select Committee have made certain amendments. Those amendments are largely speaking in the direction of liberalising the original provisions contained in the Bill in favour of the workmen. Although I find that some of the amendments made in the Select Committee to the original draft of the Bill have gone somewhat beyond the intentions of the Government, I do not propose to raise any objections to the Bill as it has emerged from the Select Committee. I am prepared to accept it in the form in which it now stands. Sir, I move.

Mr. Deputy President : Motion moved :

“That the Bill further to amend the Factories Act, 1934 as reported by the Select Committee be taken into consideration.” 458

* Monthly Grant to Indian Federation of Labour 1632. Shri Satya Narayan Sinha : (a) Has the attention of the Honourable the Labour Member been drawn to the report published in the Sunday Morning Edition of the National Call, dated the 24th March regarding the data available in connection with the monthly grant of Rs. 13,000 for labour propaganda to the Indian Federation of Labour ?

(b) Is it a fact that, when the pay of the propagandists had decreased, the cost of dissemination of news has proportionately increased ?

(c) Is it a fact that the keeping of the accounts was severely criticised by the Auditor-General who has not satisfied with the accounting system ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) Yes.

(b) The statement of accounts of the Indian Federation of Labour which placed before the House on 19th March, 1946 shows that variations in the expenditure, resulting in decreases under the heading relating to the ‘pay of propagandists’ and corresponding increases under the heading relating to “dissemination of news” occurred in

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. V of 1946, 8th April 1946, p. 3645.

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

the months of May, June and July 1945. These variations were merely due to changes in the classification of headings of expenditure, introduced in April 1945, consequent on the transfer of control over the operations of the Labour propaganda scheme from the Information and Broadcasting Department to the Labour Department, whereby the expenditure on allowances to propagandists in charge of labour centres, workers clubs and other agencies of news dissemination, which was hitherto shown under the heading ‘pay of establishment’ was shown from May 1945 onwards, under the heading ‘honoraria for news dissemination’. The overall expenditure under the heading relating to ‘pay of propagandists ’ and ‘ dissemination of news ’ during these months, however, remained almost the same as in the preceding months. (c) The attention of the Honourable Member is invited to my answer to first part of (b) and (d) of question No. 31, asked by Mr. Lalchand Navalrai, on 2nd November, 1945, and also to para. 68 of the Report of the Public Accounts Committee on the accounts of 1943-44.

Shri Satya Narayan Sinha : What has happened after that ? Will the Honourable Member be pleased to place all these accounts before the Public Accounts Committee ? It is a waste of public money, I believe.

The Honourable Dr. B.R. Ambedkar : It was considered by the Public Accounts Committee, and, as I have said in my reply, Honourable Member’s attention is invited to para 68 of the Report of the Public Accounts Committee on the accounts of 1943-44. Diwan Chaman Lall : May I ask my Honourable friend as to what the position is after 1945 and whether this grant has now been discontinued ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : It has been discontinued.

Diwan Chaman Lall : What was the position between 1945 and its discontinuance ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I have not got the information, but if my Honourable friend will put down a question I shall answer it.

Diwan Chaman Lall : Is it a fact that the accounts were vetted at the time when this grant was discontinued ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I must have notice of that.

Diwan Chaman Lall : My Honourable friend does not know whether they were vetted after that ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I could not tell you. Shri Satya Narayan Sinha : Will the Honourable Member look into the whole matter?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I have. What more can I do?

Mr. Manu Subedar : What is the present amount of the expenditure on labour propaganda through Indian Federation of Labour ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : As I have said, the grant has been discontinued.

Shri Mohan Lal Saksena : May I know when was it discontinued? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Last year, if I mistake not.

Miss Maniben Kara : Is it not true that the accounts were submitted by the Indian Federation of Labour according to the procedure laid down by the Department of Information and Broadcasting at the time that the grant was made ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I believe so. Prof. N. G. Ranga : Is it not a fact that the Indian Federation of Labour did not lay down their procedure for a long time even after the grant was made, and the Auditor General look very strong objection to the procedure followed by the Department itself? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : As I said in the course of my reply, this grant was really administered by the Information and Broadcasting Department. It was at a later stage that the administration was transferred to the Labour Department. Diwan Chaman Lall : Why?

Miss Maniben Kara : Is it not true that prior to May 1944, the Federation was asked to dispense with submitting of the vouchers and they were asked merely to submit the accounts and also whether the Indian Federation of Labour did not do so according to the instructions of that Department ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I am unable to say. The mailer was administered by another department. Miss Maniben Kara : Is it not a fact that the grant has now been stopped as a result of the termination of the war?

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Yes, I said so. Prof. N.G. Ranga : How many of those people who were formerly engaged as propagandists for ‘dissemination of news’ under this grant have come to be absorbed by the Information and Broadcasting Department ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : The question ought to be put to the Honourable Member for Information and Broadcasting Department.

Shri Mohan Lal Saksena : May I know whether the grant terminated before the termination of the war or afterwards ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I cannot say exactly. Shri Mohan Lal Saksena : Was it not terminated last year in April 1945 ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Yes.

Diwan Chaman Lall : May I ask my Honourable friend whether the final accounts have been placed before the Public Accounts Committee ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : They will be placed before the public Accounts Committee in due course I am sure. Mr. Ahmed E. H. Jaffer : Is it not a fact that this amount of Rs. 30,000 was misused ? It was not used for the purpose for which this Government had allotted this money; and that it was used for the Honourable Member’s party propaganda. The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I must take strong objection to the statement made by my Honourable friend that this money was spent on party propaganda. You must withdraw that. Mr. President : Order, order.

Prof. N. G. Ranga : He did not say that.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Yes, he did. Mr. Ahmed E. H. Jaffer : Let the Honourable Member deny it on the floor of the House and not lose his temper. Mr. President : Order, order. Will the Honourable Member resume his seat ? The Honourable Member is not in order in saying that the Honourable Member for Labour was in temper. Mr. Ahmed E. H. Jaffer : May I ask, is the Honourable Member entitled to lose his temper which he usually does in the House ? Dr. Sir Zia Uddin Ahmad : The Honourable Member said that

he strongly protests against such questions. Are these parliamentary words ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I said I strongly protest against the suggestion made by my Honourable friend that this money was used for the party to which I belong. I do not belong to the Indian Labour Federation.

Mr. President : I have not been able to understand the objection of Dr. Sir Zia Uddin.

Dr. Sir Zia Uddin Ahmad : Can the Honourable Member say : ‘I strongly protest against any particular question ?’ Diwan Chaman Lall : May I ask whether it is a fact that this money was utilized for the propaganda of the Indian Federation of Labour ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I cannot say. So far as Government information goes, it was used for the purposes for which it was granted.

Diwan Chaman Lall : May I ask my Honourable friend whether it is a fact that honest and decent organisations like the All-India Trade Union Congress refused to touch a single penny of such money ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : My Honourable friend is entitled to have his own opinion with regard to certain organisations.

Diwan Chaman Lall : Is it a fact that my Honourable friend approached the All-India Trade Union Congress in this respect and that the All-India Trade Union Congress refused to touch this money ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : We approched all organisations. It was a general circular addressed to all organisations that if they care to come and have a scheme for maintaining the morale of labour, the Government of India was prepared to help in this respect. The Government of India did not invite any particular organisation to join this scheme.

Diwan Chaman Lall : Is it a fact that the only organisation that did come to my Honourable friend and make use of this money was the Indian Federation of Labour ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Yes.

Mr. Ahmed E. H. Jaffer : Is the Honourable Member now satisfied at any rate by the discussion that has taken place as a result of so many supplementary questions, that this money has not been properly used and that there is a suspicion. In view of this, will the

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

Honourable Member appoint a non-official auditor to look into the accounts of this amount ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I do not think it is necessary to do so. The matter will come before the Public Accounts Committee which is the committee appointed by this House. Diwan Chaman Lall :.......... May I ask why has the Honourable Member delayed placing this matter before the Public Accounts Committee....

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : It has not been delayed. Diwan Chaman Lall : ........... considering that this expenditure ceased last year?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : It has not been delayed. It has been put before the Public Accounts Committee. Diwan Chaman Lall : Why has it not been put before it so far ? Mr. President : Next question.

459

* Junior Readers in Government Presses 1635. Hajee Chowdhury Mohammad Ismail Khan : (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state the basis on which officiating Junior Readers are confirmed in the permanent posts of Junior Readers, in all the Government of India Presses ? (b) Is it a fact that the nature of the duties and the cadre of Copyholders are quite different from those of Junior Readers ? (c) Is it a fact that some officiating Junior Readers who entered the Junior Reader’s grade earlier, have been declared junior in the Junior Reader’s grade to some of the copyholders who failed to qualify in the Readership Examination in which they appeared along with the former in any Government of India Press ? (d) Is it a fact that the order by which the qualified copyholders are once allowed to work in the Junior Reader’s posts can be altered if they continue to maintain their efficiency to the utmost satisfaction ?

(e) Do Government propose to consider the desirability of giving preference in the permanent posts of Junior Readers, to those qualified Copyholders who have more length of total service as officiating Junior Readers at their credit ?

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. V of 1946, 8th April 1946, pp. 3649-50.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) Confirmation is made according to seniority in the rank of copyholders except, in the case of men who have qualified in the reader’s examination in the third chance for whom certain reservations have been made. (b) Yes.

(c) Yes.

(d) Yes, unless the junior copyholder is confirmed earlier. (e) No. The present rules have been framed after full consideration. 1636. * Hajee Chowdhury Mohammad Ismail Khan : (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state whether the scale of pay of the New Scale Junior Readers is Rs. 55-3-85 and that or Copyholders Rs. 45-4-60-EB-5-80 (in the ‘C grade of the United Scale), in the Government of India Press, New Delhi ? (b) Is it also a fact that anomalies still exist between the pay of Junior Readers and that of Copyholders because a permanent Junior Reader with four or five year’s service as such at his credit is getting Rs. 64 per month only, whereas a temporary Copyholder, officiating as a Junior Reader would be getting Rs. 67 per month ? (c) Is it a fact that the Manager of the said press had recommended ‘B’ grade, after a very careful consideration, to Junior Readers, which being the only alternative of removing the existing anomalies ? (d) Does the Honourable Member propose to sanction ‘B’ grade of the unified scale for Junior Readers at an early date for the purpose of removing these anomalies? If not, why not ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) Yes.

(b) A permanent Junior reader on revised scale of pay is entitled to Rs. 64 p.m. after four years’ service and to Rs. 67 p.m. after five years’ service. In certain cases a temporary Copyholder in the unified scale, if appointed as reader is entitled lo Rs. 67 p.m. (c) Yes.

(d) The unified scale is a temporary scale and was intended for the clerical staff of the Government of India. It was made specially applicable to the Copyholders and Junior Revisers of the Government of India Presses. The applicaiton of the ‘B’ Grade of the unified scale would create more anomalies and complications as there arc several grades of readers on different rates of pay in the various Government of India Presses.

Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. V of 1946, 8th April 1946, p. 3650.

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

460

* Uses of Thorium 1642. Sri M. K. Jinachandran : Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state the uses to which Thorium could be put militarily ? Is the article capable of being used for any civil purpose ? If so, what ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : According to recent reports it seems possible that in the chain reactions which led to the release of atomic energy a part of the Uranium can be replaced by Thorium. Thorium is used in the manufacture of incandescent gas mantles, lamps, radio valves, etc. Prof. N. G. Ranga : Where is it to be found in India ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Travancore. Sri A. Karunakara Menon : Only in Travancore or in any other part of India ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I want notice of that. Mr. Manu Subedar : Has Government been approached by His Majesty’s Government or by anybody outside India in order to control this supply of Thorium, and have Government committed themselves to any particular country ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I have no knowledge of any such suggestion.

Prof. N. G. Ranga : Are Government getting this thing examined by their geological experts ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I will bear that suggestion in mind.

Sri A. Karunakara Menon : Are they exporting this product to any foreign country ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I have no information. If my Honourable friend wants any information, he must give me enough notice.

Prof. N. G. Ranga : Is it being exported? If so, every step possible should be taken to stop its export for national security. The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I will find out.

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. V of 1946, 8th April 1946, p. 3655.

* Muslims in Central P. W. D.

1646. Mr. Muhammad Rahmat-UIIah : (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state the ratio of Muslim employees in the following posts in the Central Public Works Department :—(i) Superintending Engineers, (ii) Executive Engineers, (iii) Assistant Executive Engineers, (iv) Sub-Divisional Officers, (v) Subordinates, (vi) Head Clerks, (vii) Divisional Accountants ? (b) Why is the Muslim ratio inadequate in gazetted posts ? (c) Why are not the Muslims given promotions on communal basis when the appointments are made on communal basis and when the ratio is hardly eight per cent ?

(d) What will be the policy of Government on the confirmation of staff of the Central Public Works Department in the near future ? What steps will be taken to adjust the ratio in all posts? (e) On what basis are the construction and maintenance works allotted to Sub-Divisional Officers and Subordinates? If the Muslims are deprived of the above works and if the complaint is made to the Chief Engineer or the Superintending Engineers, what steps do they take to check communalism ?

(f) Is it a fact that the Store or the Standard Measurement Books are allotted to the Muslim Subordinates? Is it a fact that they are not entrusted with the construction and the maintenance works in the Central Public Works Department in Delhi and outside ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :

(a) (i) Superintending Enginccrs-6 per cent.

(ii) Executive Engineers-17 per cent.

(iii) Assistant Executive Engincers-14 per cent. (iv) Sub-Divisional Officers-17 per cent.

(v) Subordinatcs-22 per cent.

(vi) Head Clerks-24 per cent.

(vii) Figures for Divisional Accountants are not readily available.

(b) The posts of Superintending and Executive Engineers are filled by promotion and the orders regarding reservation of appointments

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. V of 1946, 8th April 1946, p. 3656.

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

for minority communities do not apply to cases of promotion. It is not, therefore, possible to secure the 25 per cent, quota for Muslims in such posts. As regards Assistant Executive Engineers who are appointed both by direct recruitment as well as by promotion, the shortage of Muslims is due to the refusal of a Muslim candidate to accept the offer of appointment which was recently made to him.

(c) As already stated, promotions are not made on communal considerations.

(d) All confirmations of direct recruits and other temporary personnel holding no substantive appointments under Government will be made with due regard to the requirements of the orders regarding reservation of appoinments for minority communities. No adjustment of the ratio can, however, be made in the case of appointments made by promotion, but in effecting retrenchment, if any, the orders regarding observance of the communal representation rules will be duly followed.

(e) Construction and maintenance works are not allotted to Sub-Divisional Officers and Subordinates on any communal basis. (f) No.

Dr. Sir Zia Uddin Ahmad : May I ask, as regards the appointment of Superintending Engineer, if the Honourable Member said on the floor of the House that one place was vacant and he has appointed a person who is not even qualified to carry on the work as Superintending Engineer, while the Mussalmans who could be appointed as Superintending Engineer were not appointed ? I also pointed out to him on the floor of the House that the appointment will be made when the Assembly is over and we will have to come up with an adjournment motion. The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : My Honourable friend is completely mistaken. I said that the Executive Engineer was called upon to do the current duties of the office. No appointment has been made.

Dr. Sir Zia Uddin Ahmad : You said he can carry on the work of this Superintending Engineering. I cannot understand the work of this man when he is not carrying on for a day or two, but for months together. Is this the efficiency of this Department ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : My Honourable friend is entitled to have this opinion.

Dr. Sir Zia Uddin Ahmad: Our opinion is that the entire Department is very inefficient. As regards the other lists of appointments that he has for posts of Executive Engineer, there is not a single Muslim.

Mr. President: Order, order. Will the Honourable Member put his question ?

Dr. Sir Zia Uddin Ahmad: I am putting this question. Is it not a fact that in the list now prepared, there is not a single appointment for Muslims ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : How does my Honourable friend know it ? The list has not come to me. Dr. Sir Zia Uddin Ahmad : The outcome is that not a single man is a Muslim.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I do not understand how my Honourable friend can make that statement. The Government has taken no action.

Mr. President : Order, order.

Dr. Sir Zia Uddin Ahmad : Can the Honourable Member deny that there is not a single Muhammadan in the list which he has prepared for Superintending Engineer?

The Honorable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : As I said, I have not the list. The file has not been sent to me. My Honourable friend will have to wait until the Department has taken action before he criticizes.

Dr. Sir Zia Uddin Ahmad: Then it will be too late. Mr. President : Order, order.

Mr. Ahmed E. H. Jaffer : Is the Honourable Member prepared to agree that the percentage of Muslims in these appointments of Superintending Engineers and others falls far below the 25 per cent. reserved quota for Mussalmans under G. R. Home Department of 1934, and if so is the Honourable member going to take steps to maintain the quota?

Mr. President: Has not the Honourable Member already answered that?

Mr. Ahmed E. H. Jaffer : No. Sir.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : The figures are so obvious.

Mr. Ahmed E. H. Jaffer : It means that the Honourable Member agrees that the Muslim quota is far below the 25 per cent. May I ask

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

the Honourable member whether he is prepared to take immediate steps to see that the Muslim quota is properly carried out ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : The Honourable Member’s attention is invited to my reply to part (c) of the question.

Dr. Sir Zia Uddin Ahmad : If that position is accepted no Muslims will ever be appointed. The Honourable Member will ask somebody else to carry on the work.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : The real complaint is against the circular issued by the Home Department and not against the Labour Department.

462

* Industrial Employment (Standing Orders) Bill The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar (Labour Member): I move for leave to introduce a Bill to require employers in industrial establishments formally to define conditions of employment under them.

Diwan Chaman Lall (West Punjab : Non-Muhammadan) : May I, on a point of order enquire how this Bill can be moved when another Bill is being discussed ? Would it not be proper to take up this motion after the other Bill has been discussed ? Mr. President: We have not started with the discussion of the other Bill which was pending before the House. This is purely a formal matter. It is more convenient, and so far as I know there have been precedents also where a pending matter before the House has been postponed and another matter taken up. It is purely a matter of procedure and adjustment. The question is :

“ That leave be granted to introduce a Bill to require employers in industrial establishments formally to define conditions of employments under them.”

The motion was adopted.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Sir, I introduce the Bill.

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. V of 1946, 8th April 1946, p. 3667.

* Papers Laid on the Table Reports of the Labour Investigation Committee The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar (Labour Member): Sir, I lay on the table a copy each of the following Reports of the Labour Investigation Committee:— (1) Report on an Enquiry into Conditions of Labour in the Silk Industry in India.

(2) Report on an Enquiry into conditions of Labour in the Cement Industry in India.

(3) Report on Labour Conditions in Carpet Weaving. (4) Report on Labour Conditions in the Iron Ore Industry. (5) Report on Labour Conditions in Coir Mats and Matting Industry.

(6) Report on Labour Conditions in the Mica Mining and Mica Manufacturing Industry.

(7) Report on an Enquiry into Conditions of Labour in Dockyards in India.

(8) Report on Labour Conditions in the Shellac Industry. (9) Report on Rickshaw Pullers.

(10) Report on Labour Conditions in the Rice Mills. (11) Report on Labour Conditions in the Glass Industry. (12) Report on an enquiry into conditions of Labour in the Bidi, Cigar and Cigarette industries.

(13) Report on an Enquiry into Conditions of Labour in Plantations in India.

(14) Report on an enquiry into conditions of Labour in the Gola Mining Industry in India.

(15) Report on Labour Conditions in Potteries. (16) Report on Labour Conditions in the Chemical Industry. (17) Report on an Enquiry into Conditions of Labour in the Manganese Mining Industry in India.

(18) Report on an Enquiry into Conditions of Labour in the Mineral Oil Industry in India.

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. V of 1946, 9th April 1946, p. 3744.

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

(19) Report on an Enquiry into Conditions of Labour in the Woollen Textile Industry in India.

(20) Report on an Enquiry into conditions of Labour in the Paper Mill Industry in India.

Sjt. N. V. Gadgil (Bombay Central Division : NonMuhammadan Rural): These papers are not circulated. Will the Honourable Member be good enough to supply them to those who apply for them ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I shall certainly consider it, Sir. We have not got sufficient number of copies. Mr. President: The present request is to supply copies to those only who ask for them.

464

* Minimum Wages Bill The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar (Labour Member): Sir, I move for leave to introduce a Bill to provide for fixing minimum wages in certain employments.

Mr. President: The question is :

“ That leave be granted to introduce a Bill to provide for fixing minimum wages in certain employments. ” The motion was adopted.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Sir, I introduce the Bill.

465 @ Mica Mines Labour Welfare Fund Bill Presentation of Report of Select Committee The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar (Labour Member): Sir, I beg to present the report of the Select Committee on the Bill to constitute a fund for the financing of activities to promote the welfare of labour employed in the mica mining industry.

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. V of 1946, 11th April 1946, p. 3842. @ Ibid. p. 3871

* Deposits of Thorium 1740. Mr. Ahmed E. H. Jaffer : Will the Honourable the Labour member be pleased to state if deposits of thorium which is used for the manufacture of atomic energy have been discovered in many parts of India ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : The Honourable Member’s attention is invited to the reply given in this House to starred question No. 1276, on 26th March, 1946. Mr. Ahmed E. H. Jaffer: Is it a fact that considerable deposits of thorium have been found in the Travancore State, and, if so, have Government taken any steps to control this in the matter of disposal ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: It is in an Indian State and the Government of India have no right to interfere in that.

1743. Sardar Mangal Singh : Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state :

(a) the number of refrigerators purchased by Government for installations at the residential buildings at Delhi and New Delhi;

(b) the terms and conditions on which they are let on hire to the tenants of those buildings ;

(c) the particulars of officials of the Estate Office and Public Works Department, who are provided with the temporarily and permanently;

(d) whether they are not available for the use of the Honourable Members of the central Legislature during their occupation of those buildings of official duty in connection with Sessions and committees;

(e) if it is a fact that most of the staff of the office and department not in occupation of those buildings are provided with them ; and (f) if Government propose to make them available for use of the Honourable members of the Central Legislature by withdrawing them from the staff of that office and of that department; if not, why not ?

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. V of 1946, 12th April 1946, p. 3873.