2. The Cabinet Mission and the Untouchables: by Dr. Ambedkar

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

(c) The answer to the first part is in the negative. As regards the second part, the policy of Government is not to make any comprehensive revisions in scales of pay during the present unstable economic conditions but to meet increases in the cost of living either by dearness allowance or by relief in kind or by both.

248

* Requests for Adjudication of Railway Trade Disputes

101. Mr. Badri Dutt Pande : Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state:

(a) the number of requests for adjudication of trade disputes between the Railway Administrations and its employees recorded during the preceding five years; and (b) how those requests were disposed of ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) and (b). I place on the table a statement showing the number of requests made for settlement of trade disputes between Railway Administrations and their employees during the past five years under the Trade Disputes Act or Rule 81A of the Defence of India Rules, and action taken on them.

249 @ Procedure re Appointment of Adjudicator of Trade Disputes

102. Mr. Badri Dutt Pande : Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state :

(a) the rules governing the proceedings before an adjudicator is appointed under Rule 81 of the Defence of India Act Rules;

(b) the qualifications prescribed for the appointment of an adjudicator for the trade disputes between the employer and its employees; and

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. V of 1944, 20th November 1944, p. 1038. @ Ibid., p. 1040.

Requests for Boards of Conciliation or Courts of Enquiry under the Trade Disputes Act or adjudication under Defence of India Rule 81A in connection with trade dispute between the Railway Administrations and their employees Serial No.

Year From whom the request was received Nature of of request Action taken 1 2 3 4 5 1 1939 Certain travelling Ticket Inspectors on the E. I. Rly.

Appointment of a Court of Enquiry under section 3 of the Trade Disputes Act to consider the propriety of withholding a memorial addressed to His Excellency the Viceroy.

Rejected (The Trade Dispute Act did not apply as the matter was not a ‘trade dispute’ for the purpose of the Act).

2 1940 The employees of the G.I.P. Railway.

Appointment of a Court of Enquiry under section 3 of the Trade Disputes Act to investigate the question of grant of war dearness allowance.

Accepted.

3 1943 All India Railwaymen’s Federation, Mylapore, Madras.

Appointment of an adjudicator under Defence of India Rule 81A on the question of dearness allowance for Railway.

Rejected.

4 1943 The G.I.P. Railwaymen’s Union, Bombay.

Do. Do. Do.

5 1944 The N.W.R. Employee Union, Karachi.

Do. Do. Do.

6 1944 G.I.P. Railwaymen’s Union. Do. Do. Do. 7 1944 B.B. & C.I. Railwaymen’s Union, Bombay.

Do. Do. Under consideration of Government. See question No. 101 at Sr. No. 249.

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

(c) on whose report or request an adjudicator under Rule 81 of the Defence of India Act Rules is to be appointed ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) The Honourable Member is presumably referring to rule 81A of the Defence of India Rules. There are no rules governing the proceedings before an adjudicator.

(b) No qualifications have been prescribed and it is not possible to do so because action under Rule 81A is of an urgent nature and it is not always possible readily to obtain persons of any particular qualifications in different parts of the country. The general rule is to appoint the most suitable person available in all circumstances of the case. Persons so far appointed include High Court Judges, District and Sessions Judges, Chief Presidency Magistrates, Labour Commissioners and their Assistants, Workmen Compensation Commissioners and War Injuries Claims Officers.

(c) An adjudicator may be appointed at the request of either or both the parties, or on the initiative of Government. 250

* Results of Propaganda by Indian Labour Federation

103. Mr. Badri Dutt Pande : Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state the results achieved from the propaganda by the Federation of Labour from the subsidy of Rs. 13,000 a month ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I would refer the Honourable Member to the reply given by me on the 7th November 1944 to part (c) of Prof. Ranga’s starred question No. 152. 251 @ Appointment of Committee of Enquiry re Mica Industry of India Mr. Satya Narayan Sinha : (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state if it is a fact that a Committee of Enquiry by the Central Government regarding Mica Industry of Bihar has been appointed or is going to be appointed.

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. V of 1944, 20th November 1944, p. 1040. @ Ibid., p. 1041.

(b) Is the Honourable Member aware that a constitution of the said enquiry is beyond the jurisdiction of the Federal Legislative list ?

(c) If the reply be in the affirmative will the Honourable Member be pleased to state the reason for such encroachment upon the Provincial Legislative List as set out in the Seventh Schedule to the Government of India Act, 1935. The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) Yes, the Committee has been appointed.

(b) and (c) In appointing the Committee the Central Government proceeded on the view that no such encroachment was involved, but the Honourable Member is of course free to form his own opinion.

Mr. Satya Narayan Sinha : Will the Honourable Member please state under what section of the Government of India Act has the action been taken ?

Mr. President (The Honourable Sir Abdur Rahim): Presumably Government have acted upon their own responsibility. 252

* Summary of Proceedings of the Fifth Labour Conference and the Fourth Meeting of the Standing Labour Committee The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar (Labour Member): Sir, I lay on the table a copy each of the Summary of Proceedings of the Fifth Labour Conference held at New Delhi on the 6th and 7th September 1943 and the Fourth Meeting of the Standing Labour Committee held at Lucknow on the 25th and 26th January 1944. 253 @ Government Contribution to Indian Labour Federation

35. Mr. Lalchand Navalrai : (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state if his attention has been drawn to a contribution by the United Press, published in the Sind Observer of the

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. V of 1944, 20th November 1944, p. 1041. @ Ibid., Vol. I of 1945, 9th February 1945, pp. 87-88.

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

17th December, 1944, under the caption “Roy-Mehta Mud Slinging over Rs. 13,000” in which Mr. Jamnadas Mehta, M.L.A., now an officer in the Government of India, has said that he has with him an official correspondence on the aforesaid subject showing that the name of the Labour Federation has been used behind the back, over the head and without the knowledge of either its President or its Executive Council and further Rs. 13,000 per month were obtained by Mr. Roy for himself to be used as he liked ?

(b) In view of the above information, will the Honourable Member be pleased to give information with regard to this public money as to whom it was given and for what purpose, and how it was used, and did Mr. Roy himself use the money as he liked, or did he make use of it for his own purposes or divide it with Mr. Jamnadas Mehta ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) Yes, by the Honourable Member himself.

(b) I would invite attention to my reply given to the Honourable Member’s question No. 31 on the 2nd November, 1944. Mr. Lalchand Navalrai : The Honourable Member has not given specific replies to my questions. I want to know, with regard to part (b), whether what Mr. Jamnadas Mehta has said in that article is correct, or what the Honourable Member said last time on this question was correct ? Is this money for Mr. Jamnadas, is it for Mr. Roy, or is it for both ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I have nothing to add to the reply that I have given.

Mr. Lalchand Navalrai : But I want the Honourable Member to reply to my questions.

Mr. President (The Honourable Sir Abdur Rahim): The Honourable Member has given the reply.

Mr. Lalchand Navalrai : I know that the Honourable Member is feeling shy over this question because if he makes a statement it would go against his own answers. I submit that the Honourable Member should reply to my questions otherwise there will be an adjournment motion on this subject. Dr. Sir Zia Uddin Ahmad : I think the House has got a right to know whether it is a personal gratuity or it is for the benefit of the Federation.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : It is given to the Federation.

Mr. T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar : May I know whether the Government has satisfied themselves that it has been entered in the accounts of the Federation and it has been spent through the Federation ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Yes.

Mr. T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar : May I know whether the Government are contemplating an increased amount being given ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : No.

Mr. T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar : May I know for what period this has been sanctioned for the present ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : It is sanctioned for a year.

Mr. T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar : May I know when it ends ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : When the budget ends. Mr. Badri Dutt Pande : The Honourable Member said the other day that audited copies of accounts will be placed on the table of the House. Has he done so ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : They have not been received as yet.

Mr. Govind V. Deshmukh : Has the Honourable Member seen the details of this account ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I understand that they are seen by a special officer who has been appointed by Government in this behalf.

Mr. Lalchand Navalrai : From those accounts that the Honourable Member has seen already, is it or is it not clear that this money has been utilized by Mr. Roy for his own purposes ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I think that is not the correct statement.

Mr. Lalchand Navalrai: Then which is the correct statement ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : It has been spent for the purposes for which it has been granted.

Mr. Badri Dutt Pande : To whom was the money handed over to Mr. Roy, to Mr. Jamnadas Mehta, or to the Secretary of the Federation ?

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : It is received by the Secretary of the Federation.

Mr. Jamnadas M. Mehta : No money has been received by the Federation from the Government. The Name of the Federation has been used behind the back, over the head and without the knowledge of either its Executive Committee or its President. The Government have been cheated. It is without the knowledge of the Federation.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : It is not my information.

Mr. Jamnadas M. Mehta : Government have been cheated. Mr. Lalchand Navalrai : Will the Government take any action now that the Honourable Member has been told that Government has been cheated ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Government does not believe that it has been cheated.

254

* Re-Imposition of Ban on Women Working Underground in Mines

48. Mr. T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar : Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state :

(a) whether the matter of continuing to allow women inside the mines has been reviewed ;

(b) how many women are now working under mines ; and (c) in view of the fact that women working underneath cannot even decently clothe themselves, whether he will consider the advisability of abolishing the practice altogether ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) The question of re-imposing the ban on the underground employment of women in coal mines, to which the Honourable Member presumably refers, has been reviewed.

(b) The figure varies but at present about 15,000 to 16,000 women are employed underground in coal mines.

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. I of 1945, 9th February 1945, p. 104.

(c) The ban has been lifted only as a temporary measure, and will be reimposed as soon as conditions permit. I may also add that all female workers, both surface and underground, are supplied with two saries per year at the concessional rates as arranged for by the various Mining Associations; at some mines the saries are given free and at others at half price.

Mr. T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar : The question was not whether they get saris to wear. It is impossible for them to wear the saris in the mines and so the question of presentation of saris or giving them at concessional rates is absolutely irrelevant. I understand that they cannot wear saris above the waist line while working in the mines, because it is too wrong. The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : It is quite wrong. Mr. T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar : When do you expect to reimpose the ban ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : As soon as circumstances permit.

Mr. T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar : What are the circumstances ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : They are not under my control nor am I able to anticipate them. 255

* Casualties in Coal Mines

52. Mr. Abdul Qaiyum : Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state:

(a) how many people were killed or wounded while working in coal mines in 1943 and 1944;

(b) whether the proposal of providing “Pit head baths “ for women engaged in the mines and creaches for their children has been given effect to ; and (c) if not, the reasons for the delay ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar :

Killed Injured (a) 1943 ... ... 290 1,320 (b) 1944 ... ... 332 1,395

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. I of 1945, 9th February 1945, pp. 109-10.

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

(b) So far pit head baths have been provided only in the Digwardih Collieries ; creaches have been installed in 7 collieries of Central Provinces and in one colliery of Raniganj (Bengal). (c) The Government of India are not aware of the reasons for the delay. They have under active consideration the question of amending the Indian Mines Act to make it obligatory on the mine owner, who employ women workers to maintain creches. Mr. Abdul Qaiyum : Will the Government see that these improvements are effected in good time before the ban on employment of women takes place ?

Otherwise, there will be no use for these improvements later on ? Will the Honourable Member see that they are not delayed too long ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Employment of women underground may be stopped but employment of women on the surface will continue. Creaches will be necessary. That does not mean that I am going to delay matters.

Prof. N. G. Ranga : How many of those cases reported killed, due to mining accidents, were women ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: I want notice. Pandit Lakshmi Kanta Maitra : What percentage of these deaths was due to asphyxiation and what percentage was due to accidents.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I want notice. 256

*Mineral Deposits in South India

61. Mr. K. S. Gupta : (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state the different types of mineral deposits—metalic and nonmetallic—found in South India as a result of the occasional survey done by the Geological Department during the past thirty years ? (b) Is it a fact that deposits of magnetic iron ore are found in large quantities in easily accessible places ?

(c) Was there any attempt made by the Government of India to establish an iron and steel industry or encourage others to establish one in the vicinity of these deposits ? If not, why not ?

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. I of 1945, 9th February 1945, pp. 116-17.

(d) Was there any systematic examination and investigation of the following deposits in the Madras Province (i) copper, (ii) zinc, (iii) lead, and (iv) aluminium ? If so, what are the results ? (e) Is it not a fact that ceramic articles of high quality could be manufactured in the Province of Madras if the resources are properly tapped ? Are there any investigations made with regard to this industry ? If not, why not ?

(f) Is it not a fact that Ilmenite, an important mineral for manufacture of paint, could be found in some of the Southern districts ? Was there any scheme or attempt made to develop this industry ? If not, why not ?

(g) Is it not a fact that large quantities of mica, an irreplaceable mineral for high tension electrical work, is found in some of the coastal districts of the Madras Province ?

(h) Is it not a fact that mica is simply mined and exported to foreign countries without any attempt to start an industry for the preparation of electrical goods ?

(i) Do the Government of India propose to establish in Southern India a central research organization to study these deposits ? If so, when ? If not, why not ?

(j) Is it not a fact that almost all the scientific research institutions started and to be started under the Bureau of Scientific and Industrial Research would be located in Northern India ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) Metallic : Chromite, iron ores, ilmenite and Columbite-Tentalite. Non-Metallic : Ceramic materials including Kaolin, Fireclay and other types of clays, quartz, felspar, and sillimanite, Coal Lignite, and Rare Earth Minerals including Monazitc, Zircon and Samarskite.

(b) Yes.

(c) No. The ore is low grade and is not associated with suitable fuel for smelting.

(d) Yes. No deposits of economic value have however been discovered by the Geological Survey.

(e) Possibly. The Madras Government have given attention to this question and have employed Ceramic Experts. The Geological Survey is conducting investigations on the quantity and quality of ceramic materials in Madras.

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

(f) First part. Yes. Second part. No, because the deposits in Travan-core are much richer than those in Madras, and the demand for this mineral is limited.

(g) Yes.

(h) Yes, mica is largely exported.

(i) The Government of India have under consideration a scheme of expansion of the Geological Survey of India, both in personnel and in activities; it is hoped that in future a much more intensive study of the mineral deposits in the country would be possible than is the case at present. (j) The question should be addressed to the appropriate Member.

257

* Damodar Canal and Polavaram Projects

65. Prof. N. G. Ranga : Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state :

(a) whether, in view of his references to the Tennessey Valley Authority as a model after which the Damodar Canal (Bengal) and Polavaram (Madras) projects are to be developed, Government would be pleased to get a brief report published about the general aspects of that scheme and its achievements ;

(b) whether, in view of the special need of Bengal for relief from floods, flood-relief will be accepted as the primary objective of the proposed Damodar project; and (c) whether, in view of the great need of scheduled classes (Harijans) of Bengal and Bihar for lands, the Government of India will take special steps to set aside adequate funds for obtaining large areas of lands for co-operative settlement and cultivation by the Harijans of Bengal and Bihar ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) The Tennessey Valley Authority is a foreign Government organisation. A copy of the report on the working of the Authority will be obtained and placed in the library of the House.

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. I of 1945, 9th February 1945, p. 118.

(b) Yes ; flood-control will receive priority over other aspects of control measures.

(c) The problem of the best way of helping landless labourers is engaging the attention of Government.

258

* Higher Prices Charged for Rice in Bihar Coalfields

72. Mr. K. C. Neogy : (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state whether it is a fact that, in spite of his reply to my starred question No. 611 (b) on the 20th November, 1944, that the Bihar Government have decided to charge the local wholesale controlled rate plus four annas administrative charge and to bear the resulting loss, the Joint Pool at Jharia is continuing to charge the old rate from its members ? (b) Is it a fact that some mine-owners have lodged protest with the Central Government on this question ? If so, what steps have been taken to redress their grievances ?

(c) Is it a fact that the General Manager of a large colliery in the Province of Bihar has been committed to the Court of Session by the Magistrate, Dhanbad, to stand his trial under Section 81 of the Defence of India Rules at the instance of the Rationing Officer, Dhanbad, for supply of rice to the miners in excess of the prescribed ratio for the purpose of increasing the output of coal at his colliery ?

(d) Is it a fact that the Rationing Officer, Dhanbad, himself on behalf of the Bihar Government was charging and allowing the Joint Pool to charge higher rates over the declared controlled rates during the same period, as admitted by the Honourable Member in reply to my above question ?

(e) Will Government consider the desirability of taking necessary steps against the said Rationing Officer, Dhanbad, for violating the rules promulgated under the Ordinance, dated the 9th February, 1944, issued by the Deputy Commissioner, Dhanbad, by charging higher rates than the controlled rates of rice ?

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. I of 1945, 9th February 1945, p. 121.

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) and (b) The Bihar Government report that they have received no protest to this effect but I have received one and have asked the Bihar Government for a further report. The matter will be further considered on receipt of their report.

(c) Yes.

(d) Collieries were being charged in excess of control rates for foodgrains prior to November, 1944, under the orders of the Provincial Government.

(e) Does not arise in view of reply to part (d). 259

* Purchasing of Delhi Electric Supply and Traction Company

76. Mr. K. C. Neogy : (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to refer to his reply to my starred question No. 419 on the 15th November, 1944 and state whether any decision has been arrived at in regard to the question of the Government exercising their option to purchase the Delhi Electric Supply and Traction Company, Limited, on the expiry of their present licence ?

(b) If it has been decided to exercise this option, has the required notice been served on the Company ? (c) In the event of the undertaking being taken over by Government, what will be the machinery for running it in future ? (d) In case it has been decided not to exercise the aforesaid option, will the Honourable Member be pleased to make a detailed statement of the reasons for such decision ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) and (b). It is understood that the Chief Commissioner has decided to serve a notice on the Company of the intention of Government to exercise their option to purchase, but that the notice has not yet been served.

(c) No decision has yet been taken.

(d) Does not arise.

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. I of 1945, 9th February 1945, pp. 123-24.

* Recent Racial and Religious Distinction set up by Labour Department about Allotment of Quarters Mr. President (The Honourable Sir Abdur Rahim): The next notice of an adjournment motion is from Sir Syed Raza Ali to censure the Government of India for the racial and religious distinction recently set up by the Labour Department in the allotment of houses in favour of Europeans, Anglo-Indians and Indian Christians by issuing Memorandum No. WII-4/114, dated 25th Januray, 1945.

I should like to know from the Member in charge what exactly the position is.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar (Labour Member): Sir, I have looked into the Memorandum and I am told that instead of the word “Indian” the word “Indian Christians” crept it. through inadvertance. It will be corrected so that there will be no discrimination involved at all.

Sir Syed Raza Ali (Cities of the United Provinces : Muhammadan Urban): I think the best thing would be for the Honourable Member to make a statement in this House and have the whole thing placed on record.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I have corrected the Office Memorandum and it will be issued in the altered form.

Sir Syed Raza Ali : But the House would like to know something as to what is being talked about. What is the meaning of the Memorandum as it stands and what is the correction that my Honourable friend has made and what will be the effect of the correction.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : The Memorandum that was originally issued read as follows : “This Department has had under consideration the question of the abolition of the distinction between ‘Orthodox’ and ‘Unorthodox’ types of quarters available in Delhi, New Delhi and Simla for

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. I of 1945, 10th February 1945, p. 206.

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

allotment to officers drawing less than Rs. 600 per mensem. After considering the views of the Departments, it has been decided that the distinction should be abolished with effect from the next summer season.

In respect of Europeans, Anglo-Indians and Indian Christians, in whose case the Estate Officer is satisfied that they profess European habits, the Estate Officer has been vested with discretion to allot residence with raised W. C. (unorthodox quarters) to them provided they are otherwise eligible for the particular category of ‘A’, ‘B’ ‘C’ and ‘D’ type of accommodation.”

Necessary amendments to the rules will be made in due course. That was the original Memorandum that was issued. The amended Memorandum makes this change.

“The Estate Officer has been vested with discretion to allot residences with raised W. C. (unorthodox quarters) to those officers, whether European, Anglo-Indian or Indian, in whose case he is satisfied that they profess European habits, provided they are otherwise eligible for the particular categories of “A”, “B”, “C” and “D”.

261

* Ignoring Claims of Central Assembly Members for Accommodation in Western Court Rooms

156. Mr. Abdul Qaiyum: Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state :

(a) Whether certain rooms in the Western Court and other accommodation are primarily intended for the Honourable Members of the Central Assembly attending the Sessions or Select Committees. (b) whether in allotting accommodation for the Select Committee on the Insurance Bill, the claims of the Members have been ignored and the Members of the National Defence Council have been given preference ; and, if so, why ; and (c) whether due regard to the prior claims of the Members of the Central Legislative Assembly will be paid in future ?

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. I of 1945, 14th February 1945, pp. 323-24.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) 19 rooms in the Western Court and 69 quarters are reserved for the Honourable Members of the Indian Legislature during the sessions. During the non-Session periods, 7 rooms in the Western Court and 8 quarters are reserved for Members visiting Delhi in connection with the work of the Central Legislature.

(b) No ; the rooms in the Western Court were allotted to the Members of the National Defence Council in the absence of any intimation of the meeting of the Select Committee on the Insurance Bill in January, 1945 or of any demand for accommodation from the Members. Arrangement was however made to accommodate the members of the Select Committee who asked for accommodation in the Western Court. (c) Arrangement is always made to accommodate the Members of the Central Legislature provided timely notice is given. 262

* Construction of a Road to Imperial Research Institute at Mukteswar

178. Mr. Badri Dutt Pande : (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state if there is a proposal to construct a cart or motor road to the Imperial Research Institute at Mukteswar in the Naini Tal district ?

(b) If so, what will be the length of the road and the cost of construction ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) There is no such proposal before this Government.

(b) Does not arise.

263 @ Examination of Commercial Aspects of Indian Spring-waters

308. Mr. K. C. Neogy : (a) Will the Honourable the Labour member be pleased to refer to unstarred question No. 50 of the 5th August, 1943, and the reply thereto, and make a statement indicating the results

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. I of 1945, 14th February 1945, p. 337. @ Ibid., 19th February 1945, pp. 454-55.

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

of the examination of the commercial aspects of Indian springwaters, and the trial given thereto, the location of the different springs where trials have been made and the composition and properties of the respective waters ?

(b) Have Government any scheme for the working of any of these sources of spring-water through State agency or through the agency of any private enterprise ? If so, what are the details of such schemes ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) and (b). Waters of certain thermal mineral springs in Bihar were investigated by the Geological Survey of India and after examination of the chemical properties of these waters it was decided that there would be no advantage in Government undertaking during war time the commercial exploitation of these waters.

264

* Damodar River Transport for Coal in Bengal

310. Mr. R. R. Gupta : Is the Honourable the Labour Member aware that in the last century a proposal was considered by the Government of India for providing river transport to the movement of coal from the Bengal coal fields to Calcutta by rendering the river Damodar as an all weather navigable channel ? If not, will Government consider the advisability of re-examining such a proposal in connection with the proposed multi-purpose Damodar River project ? If not, why not ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I am not aware of any such proposal but there was a proposal to take out a canal from the Damodar river from Raniganj to Calcutta. The enquiry now being made is examining the possibility of a multipurpose scheme for the control of the Damodar—this examination will extend to the possibilities of encouraging navigation.

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. I of 1945, 19th February 1945, p. 455.

* Discovery of Petroleum Near Rawalpindi

314. Mr. T. T. Krishnamachari : Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state:

(a) whether his attention has been drawn to the reports appearing in the newspapers about the discovery of petroleum near Rawalpindi and the Punjab ; and (b) whether the monopoly for exploiting this petroleum has been given to a foreign concern ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) Yes, Government have seen the reports referred to— (b) The matter is the concern of the Provincial Government and Government of India have no information. 266

* Women Workers in Mills and Factories of Delhi Province

327. Shrimati K. Radha Bai Subbarayan : Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state : (a) the total number of women workers in the year, 1944, in the mills and factories in Delhi Province to which the Factories Act is applied;

(b) whether action under the Factories Act was taken against any of these concerns for failure to conform to the provisions of Acts for safeguarding the interests of women workers ; and (c) whether a Women Labour Welfare Officer has been appointed for Delhi Province ; and, if so, what her duties are ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : With your permission, Sir, I propose to reply together to question Nos. 327 and 328.

I have made enquiries and will lay a report on the table in due course.

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. I of 1945, 19th February 1945, p. 456. @Ibid., p. 463.

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

267

* Delhi Electric Supply and Traction Company

403. Mr. T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar : Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state :

(a) whether he has completed the enquiry promised by him in his answer to Mr. Neogy’s question No. 419 in the last session regarding the Delhi Electric Supply and Traction Company ; (b) the profit the company is making; and (c) the result of the enquiries, and whether Government propose exercising the option to purchase it ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) and (c). The Honourable Member’s attention is drawn to the reply given to Mr. K. C. Neogy’s question on 9th February 1945.

(b) The dividend declared by the Company since 1939 has been as follows:

1939—11 per cent.

1940—11 per cent.

1941—11 per cent. income tax free.

1942—9 per cent.

1943—9 per cent.

Mr. T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar : Have Government decided to take over the Company ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Yes, Sir.

Mr. T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar : When will it come into effect ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : As soon as the license ends. Mr. K. C. Neogy : Has the notice been actually served as yet ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I believe so. 268 @ Government Contribution to Indian Labour Federation

404. Mr. T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar : Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state :

(a) whether, in view of the fact that the President of the Trade Union Congress, Sri Jamnadas Mehta, has denied the fact of having

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. I of 1945, 21st February 1945, p. 583. @ Ibid., pp. 583-84.

received the amount from the Government as alleged by the Labour Member, he has investigated into the matter; (b) whether the amount has been credited in the accounts of the Trade Union Congress ; and (c) in whose hands the money is being given ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : The Honourable Member is apparently referring in this question to Indian Federation of Labour of which Mr. Mehta was the President and not to the All-India Trade Union Congress.

(a) I would refer the Honourable Member to my reply to Mr. Lalchand Navalrai’s question No. 31 on the 2nd November, 1944.

(b) I have no knowledge.

(c) The payment was originally mae to the representatives of the Federation through the National War Front and later, through the Chairmen, National Service Labour Tribunals. From June 1944, the payment is made to the Secretary of the Federation.

Mr. T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar : Is it not necesssary that Government should satisfy themselves that when money is sanctioned for a particular organisation it has been credited to the accounts of that organisation ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : It is not my business to check the accounts of any organisation.

Mr. T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar : In view of the Honourable Member’s statement on a previous occasion that an auditor had been sent to audit the accounts may I know if the auditor’s report has been received ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : My Honourable friend must put down a specific question on that point. Mr. Abdul Qaiyum : Will the Honourable Member give the names of the office-bearers of the organisation who actually received the money ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : First of all it was paid through the National War Front; then a change was made and the money was paid through the Chairmen of the National Labour Service Tribunals; and from June, 1944 it is paid to the Secretary of the Federation. Mr. Abdul Qaiyum : Will the Honourable Member give the name of the particular gentleman who received the money ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I shall require notice.

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

Mr. T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar : In view of the fact that the Public Accounts Committee for 1942-43 specifically said that no vouchers and no accounts are kept for this money given to Mr. Roy, may I know if the money was given to Mr. Roy in his personal name and whether audits were made and what conclusion the auditors came to as to whether the amounts were credited to the organisation ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I cannot say to whom the money was paid before the new arrangement was made. After the new arrangement was made the money is paid to the person who is known as Secretary.

Mr. Badri Dutt Pande : In view of the fact that the subsidy to the Labour Federation is not approved by this House, is it the intention of Government to discontinue it ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I do not wish to anticipate the decision.

Mr. T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar : Has provision been made for it in the next Budget ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : If my Honourable friend will wait he will know.

Mr. Sri Prakasa : Have Government made sure that the money is well spent ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Yes sir. I have no doubt about it.

Mr. T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar : Sir, may I point out to the Chair that this is an impertinent answer ? The Budget is coming up soon and he must know whether provision for this amount has been made. May I know whether this sum has been provided for ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : My Honourable friend will know it on the 28th February.

269

* Labour Exchange Bureaus

405. Mr. T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar : (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state in how many places labour exchange bureaus have been established ?

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. I of 1945, 21st February 1945, pp. 584.

(b) For what class of persons are these bureaus intended to serve ?

(c) Till now, for how many persons have they found employment ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) Employment Exchanges have been established at ten centres in India, viz., Bombay, Ahmedabad, Nagpur, Madras, Calcutta, Dhanbad, Cawnpore, Delhi, Lahore and Karachi.

(b) for the present, the Employment Exchanges are intended to serve technical personnel as defined under the National Service (Technical,) Personnel Ordinance, 1940 who are in receipt of wages of not less than Rs. 1-8-0 per day in the cities of Bombay and Calcutta and Re. 1 per day in other places. (c) Upto 31st December, 1944 the Exchanges had found employment for 5,909 workmen.

I may add that it was only in December, 1943 that it was decided to set up these exchanges and considerable difficulty was experienced in securing competent staff and suitable accommodation.

Mr. T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar : May I know whether Government propose to extend the work of these Labour Exchanges to other categories of labour ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Yes, Sir. Mr. T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar : What are these other categories of labour which extension is proposed ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : We have come to no decision as yet.

Mr. Abdul Qaiyum : May I know for what percentage of the total applicants jobs were found ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : The total number of workmen that were registered as wanting jobs was 14,697 out of whom employment was found for 5,909 men. Shrimati Radha Bai Subbarayan : Do these figures include women also?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : My figures do not make any distinction between male and female.

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

270

* Arrangements for Care of Children of Women Miners

436. Shrimati K. Radha Bai Subbarayan : Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state :

(a) what the specific arrangements are for the care of infants and children of women miners working inside mines and on the surface in all mining areas, and under whose supervision these arrangements are carried out; (b) the facilities provided for nursing mothers working inside mines to feed their infants at regular intervals ; and (c) whether the arrangements referred to in (a) and (b) have been approved by any medical authority ; and, if so, by whom ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) No specific arrangements have so far been made, but at a few mines creches with female attendants have been provided and in some collieries child clinics exist where milk is distributed to miners’ children. The question of requiring provision of creches is at present under the consideration of Government.

(b) Children are not allowed underground and therefore no special facilities are required underground. Mothers are not allowed underground within one month of delivery. Information as to facilities allowed to other mothers to come up to feed their children is being called for.

(c) No.

Shrimati K. Radha Bai Subbarayan : May I ask, Sir, if the Government will prohibit women from working underground in mines where these arrangements have not been made until Government consider this question ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I have not followed the question.

Shrimati K. Radha Bai Subbarayan : Will Government take definite steps to have proper arrangements for the care of children and for enabling women to come up to the surface to feed their children ? Surely infants require to be fed even after they are a month old ?

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. I of 1945, 21st February 1945, p. 609.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I cannot arrive at a decision until I know what is the magnitude of the problem. I have called for information.

Shrimati K. Radha Bai Subbarayan : As the Honourable Member himself admits that the problem is a very serious one, will Government prohibit women from working underground till they have finished considering the problem ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I do not know whether there are any number of women who are suckling babies underground. Mr. Manu Subedar : Will the Honourable Member discontinue the work of women underground in those mines where the creches and other facilities mentioned by him do not exist. The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I am taking steps to see that every mine has got creches.

Mr. Manu Subedar : Will the Honourable Member discontinue the work of women until that time ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : If that was the only alternative, that proposition might be considered. Prof. N. G. Ranga : Will Government consult the All-India Medical Council in regard to part (c) of this question in regard to the advisability or otherwise of allowing mothers with suckling babies to work underground ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I do not know whether they will accept the responsibility of advising Government in this matter.

Prof. N. G. Ranga : I am asking whether Government will be willing to ask them, whether they are prepared to give advise or not. The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I do not think this is a problem where consultation is necessary.

Shrimati K. Radha Bai Subbarayan : May I ask if the International Labour Conference during its last session made certain suggestions with regard to this matter ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I have no information at all at present with me.

Mrs. Renuka Ray : Is it a fact that these creches in most mines only function effectively when visitors are conducted round and when Government Inspectors go round there on their pre-arranged visits and