2. The Cabinet Mission and the Untouchables: by Dr. Ambedkar

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

Mr. N. M. Joshi : May I know if the Government of India reconsidered the question after the vote given by this Legislature ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I have nothing to add to what I said.

311

*Arrangements for Care of Miners’ Children 1057. Shrimati K. Radha Bai Subbarayan : Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state :

(a) the information received by Government about arrangements for the care of children and infants of miners since the reply given to starred question No. 436 on the 21st February, 1945 ;

(b) the information received by Government on the points raised in supplementaries to that question; and (c) whether milk is supplied free to infants and children of the miners ; and, if so, the quantity of milk given to each child according to age, and if no milk is given, the reason for not giving it ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) and (b). I have not yet received a report on all matters, but would first make clear that there is an absolute prohibition on women at any time taking babies underground, and themselves going underground for a period of 4 weeks after childbirth.

An enquiry made by the Lady Labour Welfare Officer a few months ago disclosed that women in an advanced state of pregnancy generally did not go underground and I have introduced a Bill which while giving longer benefit will prohibit them from going underground for 10 weeks before expected date of childbirth. So far as I have ascertained no organised facilities exist for mothers to come to the surface to feed their babies at regular intervals, but the Lady Welfare Officer states that there is a tendency for women with children at home to leave the mines early to return to their homes.

(c) In a few mines only Government are examining further possibilities in regard to improvement of health of women and children in mining areas.

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central). Vol. I of 1945, 26th March 1945, p 2006.

Prof. N. G. Ranga : In regard to that tendency for mothers who have left their children at home to leave the mines a little early, are they made to suffer any loss of wages because they leave a little early, or are they encouraged to leave the mines early without loss of pay ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : They are paid by tubs: it is piece work.

Shrimati K. Radha Bai Subbarayan : How many hours at a stretch do they work ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : It is piece work ; they can go any time and come at any time.

312

* Tea Garden Labourers sent on Assam Projects 1313. Dewan Abdul Basith Choudhury : (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state whether he is aware that a large number of persons have been sent by the Managers of Tea Gardens to projects in Assam as labourers ? (b) Is the Honourable Member also aware that no compensation has yet been granted to the dependents of many labourers who have lost their lives while engaged in project work ? (c) Is it a fact that in those cases where compensation has been granted to the dependents of the deceased project workers, the amount paid is Rs. 200 to Rs. 300 ? Is this amount considered adequate ?

(d) Is the Honourable Member aware that the dependents of these unfortunate labourers are experiencing great difficulties in receiving payments of the compensation money ? (e) Does the Honourable Member propose to consider the desirability of paying adequate compensation to the dependents of all labourers who have their lives in the projects ? (f) Does he also propose to consider the desirability of paying the compensation money through the Sub-Divisional Office instead of through the Tea Garden Office ?

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central). Vol. I of 1945, 26th March 1945, p. 2007.

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

The Honourable Dr. B . R. Ambedkar : (a) Yes. (b) The information is not correct. The Government of India in the War Department have directed payment of compensation to all labourers recruited by the Indian Tea Association (besides some other categories of labourers who have either lost their lives or have been injured as a result of their employment in the War projects in Assam. The Controller of Emigrant Labour has been appointed Commissioner of Workmen’s Compensation for the settlement of these claims. He has paid compensation in over 4,000 cases within the last two years. The number of applications for compensation received by him on behalf of the Labourers of the Indian Tea Association alone up to 28th February 1945 is 2,612. Of these payments have been made in 2,309 cases. 217 cases have been rejected and 86 cases are under enquiry. (c) Compensation is paid according to the rates under the Workmen’s Compensation Act in all cases coming under the operation of the Workmen’s Compensation Act and in other cases Ex-Gratia payments of Rs. 900 for death and Rs. 1,200 for total disablement are paid. A preliminary payment up to Rs. 300 is paid in the first instance. The Honourable Member is apparently referring to this preliminary payment.

(d) The amounts of compensation ordered to be paid in lump sums are paid through the Deputy Commissioner of the Managers of Tea Estates if the dependants live in Tea Estates. In the case of minors and persons incapable of taking care of large amounts, the amounts are invested in the Post Office by the Commissioner of Labour, Assam, and remitted to them in periodical instalments by Postal Money Order. There has been some delay in the investment and remittance in the early stages as the Postal Department were unable to deal with the large number of investments but remittances are now issued systematically.

(e) As stated in reply to part (c) the rates of compensation paid in cases coming under Workmen’s Compensation Act are those laid down in the schedule of the Act. In the other cases the amounts of Rs. 900 for death and Rs. 1,200 for permanent total disability have been based on the rates admissible under the Act to a labourer receiving similar cash emoluments. These rates of compensation are considered adequate.

(f) In most of the cases the dependants are minors or persons incapable of taking care of large amounts. The amount invested in these cases are paid in instalments through Postal Money Order. Only preliminary payments and lump sum payments are made through the Deputy Commissioners and Managers of Tea Estates. The amounts are sent to the Managers of Tea Estates only in cases in which the dependants live in tea Estates. It is found expedient to do so because the Managers will be in a position to identify the dependants, effect the payment promptly and forward the acquittance to the Commissioner of Workmen’s Compensation. This system has worked satisfactory so far. 313

* Bad Health of Labourers Returned from Assam Projects 1314. Dewan Abdul Basith Choudhury : (a) Is the Honourable the Labour Member aware that several hundred labourers returned from the project works in Assam in a very bad state of health ?

(b) Is he also aware that a large number of them are still suffering from various diseases ?

(c) Is it a fact that no proper arrangements have been made for their treatment ?

(d) If the replies to parts (a) to (c) be in the affirmative, does he propose to consider the desirability of representing the difficulties of these unfortunate labourers to the authorities concerned ?

(e) If the replies to parts (a) to (c) be in the negative, does he propose to enquire and lay the result of the enquiry on the table of the House ?

The Honourable Dr. B . R. Ambedkar : (a) Virulent forms of malaria and some other diseases are incidental to the work in the unhealthy jungle tracts of Assam where the war operations have been in progress; therefore some labourers returned from the projects in a bad state of health. The Ex-Gratia payments of compensation for deaths by diseases have therefore been specially ordered to be paid by the Government of India as there is no provision for payment

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. I of 1945, 26th March 1945, p. 2010.

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

of compensation in such cases under the Workmen’s Compensation Act. Compensation is paid also to labourers who on returning from projects die of diseases contacted in the projects. (b) The Government have no information.

(c) The labourers returning to Tea Gardens are treated in the Garden Hospitals as in the case of other Tea Estates labourers and those returning to villages may avail of the treatment in the local hospitals. No other medical arrangements are practicable in the case of labourers who return individually to their gardens and villages.

(d) The question does not arise in view of the answers to (a), (b) and (c).

(e) The facts ascertained have been stated above. 314

* Grievances of Employees of Government of India Press, Calcutta 1315. Mr. Abdul Qaiyum : Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state:

(a) Whether the employees of the Government of India Press, Calcutta, submitted memorials on the 20th December, 1944, and 24th January, 1945;

(b) the nature of the grievances mentioned therein; and (c) the action taken or proposed to be taken by Government ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) Yes.

(b) The employees asked for (1) increase in basic wage and fixation of a minimum wage of Rs. 10 p.m. (2) grant of enhanced dearness allowance, (3) concessional rates of grain supply, (4) reduction in working hours, (5) extension of casual leave to piece workers, (6) abolition of the piece system, and (7) abolition of the system of classifying employees as superior and inferior and the grant to inferior employees of the privileges allowed to superior employees.

(c) Items at (2), (3), (5) and (7) referred to in part (b) are under consideration. It is not possible to consider the other items during the present emergency.

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. I of 1945, 26th March 1945, p. 2010.

* Hours of Work for Employees of Government of India Press, Calcutta 1316. Mr. Abdul Qaiyum : Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state :

(a) the total number of hours of work per week for the employees of the Government of India Press, Calcutta;

(b) whether the Bengal Government have reduced the hours of work of the Bengal Government Presses to forty hours per week within a bonus ; and (c) whether Government propose to reduce the hours in their Presses : if not, why not ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) 48. (b) The hours have been reduced to 40 per week but no bonus has been granted.

(c) No reduction can be contemplated during the present emergency.

316 @ Revision of Scale of Pay of Employees of Government of India Press, Calcutta 1317. Mr. Abdul Qaiyum : Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state :

(a) whether the dearness allowance granted to the Press employees corresponds to the abnormal rise in the cost of living ;

(b) when the last revision of pay of the Press employees of Calcutta took place ;

(c) whether the Government Press employees in Calcutta have to pay more for rationed and non-rationed articles than the Railway and other employees ; and

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. I of 1945, 26th March 1945, p. 2010. @ Ibid. p. 2010.

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

(d) whether Government propose to revise the scale of pay ; and, if not, why ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) The existing rates of dearness allowance were fixed with due regard to the rise in prices and a revision thereof is under consideration. (b) In 1924. The revised rates of pay for new entrants were introduced in 1933 and 1934.

(c) Yes. They have to pay more as compared with Railway employees but the concessions admissible to them are the same as for all other employees of the Central Government. (d) Government do not propose to undertake any general revision of pay during the present emergency. 317

* Leave Benefit to Piece Workers of Government of India Press, Calcutta 1318. Mr. Abdul Qaiyum : Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state :

(a) whether the piece workers in the Calcutta Central Government Press are entitled to the same leave benefit as the salaried employees;

(b) whether the salaried employees in Delhi and Calcutta are entitled to the same casual leave; and (c) if not, whether Government propose to equalise the condition in Delhi and Calcutta ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) No.

(b) No.

(c) Salaried employees in all the Government of India Presses have been granted casual leave up to 15 days in a calendar year. Government of India have, in view of the climate and other conditions raised the limit of casual leave to 20 days per year for all Central Government servants in Delhi including the New Delhi Press employees. The higher limit of casual leave is not extended only to the Calcutta Press employees.

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. I of 1945, 26th March 1945, p. 2010.

* Desirability of Giving Certain Benefits to Inferior Servants of Government of India Press, Calcutta 1319. Mr. Abdul Qaiyum : (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state if it is not a fact that the inferior servants of the Government of India Press, Calcutta, are not entitled to get any benefit enjoyed by the superior servants, such as General Provident Fund, permanent service, house allowance, Medical leave, etc. ? (b) If so, do Government propose to sanction all the privileges to the inferior staff as are enjoyed by the superior staff ? (c) Is it not a fact that employees of the Government of India Press, Calcutta, appointed after 1928, are not allowed the compensation leave in lieu of attending on holidays ? (d) Is it not a fact that only 25 per cent, allowance is granted to the employees for attending on closed holidays and that no payment is made for attending on non-closed holidays ? (e) If so, under what circumstances have the employees appointed after 1928 been deprived of the benefit of compensation leave ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) and (b). No. They are entitled to medical leave. Permanent inferior servants are also entitled to the benefits of permanent service, e.g., pension, leave on average pay or earned leave and extraordinary leave. The question of granting them house rent and other privileges is under consideration.

(c) Yes.

(d) In lieu of compensatory leave they are paid overtime for working on closed holidays at 25 per cent above their normal rates. (e) For administrative reasons.

319 @ Schemes for Technical Education of Students Abroad 1320. Dewan Abdul Choudhury : (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state whether there are two different schemes before Government for sending students abroad for higher

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. I of 1945, 26th March 1945, p. 2010. @ Ibid.

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

technical education ? If so, what are the main features of the two schemes ?

(b) Is the training scheme sponsored by the Labour Department different from the scheme of the Education, Health and Lands Department ?

(c) Is the proposed scheme akin to the Bevin Training Scheme ? (d) What are the technical subjects which Government contemplate to provide for the students abroad ? And what will be the duration of training on each subject ? (e) What type of jobs, do Government contemplate to offer to the successful candidates after they return from abroad ? (f) Are Government selecting the students on a fixed quota basis from each of the Provinces and maintaining the proportion of different communities ? If so, how many students will be sent from Bengal and Assam ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) and (b). There are two distinct schemes. The first is for sending students abroad for higher studies in technical and scientific subjects ; the second is for sending abroad technicians already employed in industry for further training or for enlarging their industrial or professional experience. The former scheme is dealt with by the Education, Health and Lands Department and the latter by Labour Department.

(c) The proposed scheme is in a way an extension of the Bevin Training Scheme. The object is to provide higher technical training for the more important supervisory post in industry. (d) The types of training contemplated under the Labour Department scheme are : Mechanical Engineering, Electrical Engineering, Radio Manufacture, Ship-building, Aeronautical Engineering, Marine Engineering, Civil Engineering, Structural Engineering, Metallurgy, Generation of Electricity, Locomotive Construction, Chemical Engineering, Fertilisers, Plastics, Glass, Steel Manufacture.

This list is not exhaustive and other types of training will be considered, if required.

Normally the period of training will be one year, but may be extended to two years in individual cases.

(f) No quotas have been allotted. Provincial Governments have been asked to make their own nominations for which they will bear the

cost. Private employers are also making their own nominations. Government of India will make a final selection from these nominations.

320

* Workers in Mica Mines of Gudur Division 1327. Shrimati K. Radha Bai Subbarayan : Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state : (a) the number of workers—men and women—employed for underground and surface work in the mica mines of the Gudur Division;

(b) their average daily wage and dearness allowance; (c) if it is a fact that they are engaged mostly through contractors who lake a percentage of the wages; and, if so, the reasons for permitting this system ; and (d) if Government propose to hold an inquiry about the conditions in these mines and report to this House? If so, when?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) The number of male and female workers employed in Mica Mines in the Gudur area is approximately 7,000 and 4,000 respectively. No women are employed underground.

(b) Average daily wage is Rs. 12 for men and Rs. 7 for women. As wages were raised recently, no dearness allowance is paid. (c) As far as is known labour is engaged and paid direct by the mine-owners, and not through contractors. (d) No; the second part does not arise.

321 @ Applying Factories Act, etc. to Mica Splitting Factories in Gudur Division 1328. Shrimati K. Radha Bai Subbarayan : Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state : (a) if it is a fact—(i) that the Factories Act is not applied to the Mica Splitting Factories in the Gudur Division;

*Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. I of 1945, 26th March 1945, p. 2014. @ Ibid.

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

(ii) that the large majority of workers employed here are women and that they receive no advantage of the Maternity Benefits Act, (iii) that there are no arrangements for the care of infants and children of the women workers, and (iv) that the premises are in an insanitary condition without sufficient ventilation ; and (b) whether Government propose to take steps to apply the Factories and Maternity Benefits Acts to these factories, improve labour conditions and provide adequate facilities for the care of infants and children of the women workers and report to this House about this matter?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) and (b). The administration of the Factories Act and of the Madras Maternity Benefits Act is the responsibility of the Provincial Government. As regards a survey of the working conditions of labour in the Mica Splitting Factories in Gudur Division, the Labour Investigation Committee is engaged on the work. Government will consider in due course proposals which will be made by the Planning Committee for labour which Government hope to set up after the Labour Investigation Committee’s work is over. 322

* Rule re Appointment of Qualified Copyholders and Revisers as Junior Readers in Government of India Presses 1330. Mr. Badri Dutt Pande : (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state whether Government have recently received any memorials from the employees of any Government of India Presses regarding their hardships created by the anomalies which exist in the present rule governing the appointment of qualified Copyholders and Revisers in the Junior Readers’ post ?

(b) is it a fact that in May, 1940 the Government of India Press Workers’ Union, New Delhi, sent a representation to the Secretary, Labour Department, fully approved by Mr. Asaf Ali, M.L.A. (Central), who was the President of the Union, for amending the rule so that

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. I of 1945, 26th March 1945, p. 2020.

earlier passed candidates might get preference over subsequent qualified men ?

(c) Do government propose to consider the advisability of amending the existing rule in the light of these memorials ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) Memorials have been received from three copyholders of the Government of India Press, New Delhi, but there is no allegation of hardship or anomaly in the present rules governing appointment to readers’ posts.

(b) Yes.

(c) The memorials will be considered on their merits. 323

* Irregular Appointments in Certain Branches of C.P.W.D.

1351. Syed Ghulam Bhik Nairang : (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state whether under the rules about communal representation in the services, an appointment made against those rules should be cancelled ?

(b) Is it a fact that it was found that an irregular appointment of a Sikh was made in the Horticulture Department of the Central Public Works Department ?

(c) Is it a fact that the appointment was not cancelled, but the Muslim, who should have been appointed to that vacancy, was assigned his correct position in the seniority list ? (d) Is it a fact that some irregular appointments were also made in the cadre of Electrical Engineers ?

(e) Is it a fact that it was decided not to cancel those appointments but to assign the Muslims their correct position in the seniority list ?

(f) Is it a fact that subsequently the orders about seniority were also cancelled and seniority was fixed according to the dates of the irregular appointments of non-Muslims ? If so, why ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) Yes.

(b) No.

*Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. I of 1945, 26th March 1945, p. 2025.

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

(c) Two vacancies in the grade of Horticulture Subordinate arose simultaneously, of which the first was reserved for a Muslim and the other was unreserved. A Muslim was selected against the Muslim vacancy and a Sikh against the unreserved vacancy. The Sikh joined his appointment earlier than the Muslim, as the latter was employed elsewhere and could not be released in time by the office where he was employed. As the first of the two appointments was earmarked for the Muslim he was placed higher than the Sikh in the seniority list.

(d), (c) and (f). Certain officiating appointments in the grade of Electrical Engineer were made without observing the strict order of communal rotation laid down in the orders regarding representation of minority communities in the public service. These appointments had to be made at very short notice in connection with urgent war works in Eastern India and it was administratively impracticable to follow the prescribed communal rotation in making these appointments. The appointments were not, therefore, cancelled, and the seniority of the officers concerned was fixed in accordance with their respective dates of appointment. No orders fixing the seniority of any Muslim officer in the grade of Electrical Engineer were passed and cancelled later.

324

* Affording Certain Maternity Benefits to Women Mine Workers 1358. Mr. T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar : Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state:

(a) in pursuance of his anwer to starred question No. 437, asked on the 21st February, 1945, whether Government have examined the matter of extending the time when women before and after delivery should not be allowed to go within the mines; (b) whether Government have considered the matter of every mine being provided with creches for children of mothers working in mines; and

*Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. I of 1945, 26th March 1945, p. 2028.

(c) whether, in view of the fact that statements have been made in the House by Members with personal experience that these creches are not functioning regularly, Government have taken or are taking steps to see that these are properly functioning ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) The necessary Legislation is already before the House. (b) and (c). The whole question of the compulsory provision of creches in mines is under consideration. 325

* Scheme for Training in Technical Industries Abroad 1359. Mr. T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar : Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state: (a) apart from the training given in universities to students, as mentioned in the press communique of the Education, Health and Lands Department, whether Government have any scheme to depute and train men in technical industries, so that they can be used in the starting of industries in the post-war period ;

(b) whether the Government of India have negotiated with the Government or industrialists of the U. K. or the U.S.A. to get such men trained; and (c) if so, in what industries ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) Yes. Attention of the Honourable Member is invited to Labour Department letter No. TRC-II-1140, dated the 12th December, 1944, a copy of which was placed on the table of the House on the 14th February, 1945 in reply to his question No. 198. (b) With the Governments.

(c) Negotiations on general lines and not confined to specific industries have taken place.

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. I of 1945, 26th March 1945, p. 2029.

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

326

* Tonnage on Which Soft Coke Cess has been Realised

104. Mr. K. C. Neogy : Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state the tonnage on which the Soft Coke Cess Committee realised its cess on despatch on Soft Coke during 1941 to 1944 ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : The information is as follows:

1941 957,553 tons 1943 354,835 tons 1942 431,858 tons 1944 445,721 tons 327 @ Miscellaneous Departments The Honourable Sir Jeremy Raisman : Sir, I move : “That a supplementary sum not exceeding Rs. 10,00,000 be granted to the Governor General in Council to defray the charges which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1945 in respect of ‘ Miscellaneous Departments’.”

Mr. President (The Honourable Sir Abdur Rahim): Motion moved:

“That a supplementary sum not exceeding Rs. 10,000 be granted to the Governor General in Council to defray the charges which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1945 in respect of ‘Miscellaneous Departments’.”

Mr. T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar : The explanation given on page 27 is :

“Due to the setting up of additional Provincial and Regional Labour Supply Committees, Labour Supply Depots and Labour Supply Bureaux.”

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. II of 1945, 28th March 1945, p. 2219. @ Ibid., p. 2219.

I find on page 12 under the Demand for Labour:

“Creation of the Directorate of Unskilled Labour Supply for coordination of the work of the provincial and regional labour supply committees and the labour supply depots.” I think, Sir, there is a repetition. I should like to know what is the difference between the two.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar (Labour Member) : That demand was quite different. It was for the pay of officers, it refers to the salaries of officers, while this is quite a different thing. This is on account of opening of certain labour supply committees, labour supply bureaux and labour supply depots. This is the cost incurred in regard to workmen and that refers only to salaries of officers of the Secretariat. Mr. T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar : I will read it again: Due to setting up of additional Provincial and Regional Labour Supply Committees ............”

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : This is for coordination, that is done in the Secretariat. The item on page 12 refers to salary of officers working in the Secretariat, while this demand refers to work done outside the Secretariat. Mr. President (The Honourable Sir Abdur Rahim): The question is:

“That a supplementary sum not exceeding Rs. 10,00,000 be granted to the Governor General in Council on the 31st day of March, 1945 in respect of ‘Miscellaneous Departments’.” The motion was adopted.

328

* Controlled Rates of Price of Rice in Dhanbad Sub-Division 1464. Mr. K. C. Neogy : (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state the present local controlled rates of price per maund of the different kinds of rice in Dhanbad SubDivision in the Province of Bihar ? (b) At what rates is the Provincial Government charging the two Coal Trade Organisations for supplying rice for the benefit of colliery

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. II of 1945, 29th March 1945, p. 2235.

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

labour ? Is any incidental charge realised by that Government from the said Organisations in addition to the controlled price of rice in Dhanbad Sub-Division ? If so, at what rate and for what reasons ? (c) Has any complaint been received recently from the Indian Collieries Union stating that the Joint Pools are still charging from its members approximately Rs. 4 per maund of rice, over and above the local controlled prices ?

(d) Has any comprehensive report been obtained by Government in this or any connected matter, from the Welfare Commissioner who is stationed at Dhanbad ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) The wholesale control rates for rice in Dhanbad Sub-Division are Rs. 11 and Rs. 12 per maund for coarse and medium qualities respectively. The corresponding retail rates for the 2 qualities of rice are -/4/7½* and -/5/-* per seer.

(b) The Provincial Government is charging the two coal trade organisations the basic wholesale control rate at the source of supply of Rs. 9 per maund for coarse and Rs. 10 per maund for medium quality plus -/4/-* per maund to cover administrative charges. The organisations have to pay in addition the cost of the bags and the actual incidental charges incurred in effecting despatches of rice from the source of supply to the consuming centres. (c) Yes, Sir.

(d) No.

Mr. K. C. Neogy : With regard to (b), is the Honourable Member in a position to tell the House whether the resulting price which is charged to the collieries is higher than the local controlled price, having regard to all the different levies which are paid ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I am afraid I have not made any calculations.

Mr. K. C. Neogy : That is really the point of the complaint. The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : My Honourable friend can make the calculations.

Mr. K. C. Neogy : With regard to (d). I take it that this officer is an officer of the Government of India ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Yes.

Mr. K. C. Neogy : In view of the frequent complaints received in

* Rates are shown in annas and pies. —Ed.

regard to this question, will the Honourable Member consider the desirability of obtaining a report from this officer as regards these matters ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : This work will not fall within the purview of his duties. This is a matter for the Provincial Governments.

Mr. K. C. Neogy : The Honourable Member is aware that the complaint amounts to this, that the Provincial Government is not fully cooperating with the Central Government in the matter of making rice supplies to the collieries reasonably cheap ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I will get into touch with the Provincial Government, but I do not think I can ask the Coal Welfare Commissioner to deal with this matter. 329

* Area under Irrigation in Baluchistan 1469. Mr. Abdul Qaiyum : Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state :

(a) the total area brought under irrigation in Baluchistan since the war began;

(b) how much of such area was brought under irrigation by Government and how much by private enterprise; (c) the total amount spent by the Government on such projects; and (d) whether any sums were advanced to Zamindars for bringing land under irrigation ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a), (b) and (c). No substantial areas have been brought under irrigation in Baluchistan since the war began; but two flood control schemes, sanctioned by Government, costing about, Rs. 68,000, will add about 1,000 acres. As a result of more intensive cultivation of lands under irrigation and expansion of dry farming coupled with the Administration’s procurement measures, Baluchistan has become a surplus province with wheat, paddy and Jowari for export to other provinces.

(d) The information is being collected.

*Legislative Assembly Debates (Central). Vol. II of 1945, 29th March 1945, p. 2239.

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

330

* Liquor Shops in Vicinity of Railway Coal Mines 1470. Shrimati K. Radha Bai Subbarayan : Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state :

(a) if it is a fact that there are liquor shops in the vicinity of Railway coal mines; and, if so, the days and hours when they are open;

(b) whether the management of these mines are aware that these liquor shops tempt miners to waste their wages on drink and ruin their health and that, consequently, the attendance of the miners and the output of coal in the mines on the day following the pay-day is adversely affected;

(c) if the reply to (b) above is in the negative, whether Government propose to call for a report on the matter; and (d) whether Government also propose to ask the authorities concerned either to abolish liquor shops in mining areas, or to restrict the hours of opening and the quantity of liquor sold per individual and to close them fully on paydays ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) Yes. There are liquor shops in the vicinity of coal mines owned by railways as well as by others. I regret I have at present no information about the days and hours of opening but I shall obtain it and place it on the table of the House.

(b) No.

(c) Government will call for a general report on the relations between drink and the health and production of miners. (d) Excise administration is a Provincial subject. On receiving a report, however, Government will consider if any recommendations appear necessary in regard to liquor shops.

I should add that about December 1944, the retail prices for distillery liquor in the Bihar coalfields was increased and the Provincial Government is watching the effect of this increase of prices before considering any other action to restrict the consumption of liquor. A report received last year from Bengal suggets that there has been

*Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. II of 1945, 29th March 1945, p. 2239.

no evidence of excessive consumption of drink in the Bengal coalfields area.

Shrimati K. Radha Bai Subbarayan : Sir, in view of the fact that the coal situation is very grave in this country and that it is necessary to have the utmost output from coal mines, will Government consider the importance of taking immediate steps to close down the liquor shops in their vicinity, even though it is a provincial matter ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I am afraid we have no control as the Honourable Member suggests. Mr. G. Rangiah Naidu : May I know if the liquor shops were located in the vicinity with the consent of the Local Government ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I say, that is a matter for Provincial Government.

331

* Primary Schools for Railway Coal Miners’ Children 1471. Shrimati K. Radha Bai Subbarayan : Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state : (a) whether there are any primary schools for children of the miners working in the Railway-owned coal mines; and, if so, the number of schools and pupils—boys and girls—attending each of them;

(b) whether the number of schools and pupils has increased or decreased since June, 1939, and what the difference now is;

(c) whether these schools are co-educational, and if there are women teachers on their staff;

(d) if a midday meal is provided to the pupils at these schools; and, if not, why not;

(e) whether these schools are under entire or partial management of the Coal Mine Authorities or under some other local authorities; and (f) what steps Government are taking to promote elementary education among miners ?

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. II of 1945, 29th March 1945, p. 2239.

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) Yes. I regret I have no detailed information about the number of schools but I shall obtain it. As regards the number of children of miners attending the schools, it will not be easy to obtain the information as the schools are open to other children as well.

(b), (c) and (d). I have no information but I shall obtain it and place it on the table of the House. (c) The schools are under the management of the Hazaribagh Mines Board to which the Railway Collieries make financial contribution.

(f) The responsibility for educational facilities is primarily that of the Provincial Governments.

Shrimati K. Radha Bai Subbarayan : Sir, the Honourable Member told us the other day that there is a welfare committee, may I ask if the Honourable Member will draw their attention to the suggestions that I have made in this question and also get a record of the children of the miners who attend the schools ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : There is nothing to prohibit the Welfare Committee from interesting themselves in this and taking action in the matter. Shrimati K. Radha Bai Subbarayan : I want to know, Sir, if the Government will give instructions to this Committee to give their attention to these matters ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Yes, it might do. There is nothing to prevent the Committee from doing it. 332

*Application of Essential Services Ordinance to Government Employees 1485. Mr. N. M. Joshi : Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state :

(a) whether Essential Services Ordinance applies to all Government employees; and

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. II of 1945, 29th March 1945, p. 2245.

(b) whether protests have reached the Government regarding non-application of the provisions of sections (5) and (6) of the Essential Services (Maintenance) Ordinance II of 1941, in regard to obligation of the Crown not to discontinue the services of the Crown servants without a reasonable cause, and the issue of rules regulating or empowering a specified authority to regulate their wages and other conditions of service ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) Yes. (b) No.

Mr. N. M. Joshi : May I ask why Government have not taken steps that are necessary to be taken under the Essential Services Act ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : My Honourable friend’s question was whether protests were received.

* * *

*Mr. T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar : Item 3 in the ...............

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar (Labour Member) : I am sorry I was not here to listen to the points raised by my Honourable friend, Mr. Avinashilingam Chettiar. But I should like to tell him that these quarters are permanent. Mr. T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar : All of them ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Yes, and the necessity that forced us to undertake this construction...... Mr. T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar : I know that. I know my Honourable friend can give a lecture on that. The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I think it is a great advantage that in the midst of so much money which is being spent on building temporary structures, we have succeeded in securing at least these quarters as permanent houses which will enable us to house a large number of clerks’ population which will be working in the Secretariat.

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. III of 1945, 29th March 1945, p. 2261.

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

333

* Erection of Wall Round a Mosque in Karol Bagh, Delhi Maulvi Muhammad Abdul Ghani : Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state :

(a) whether he is aware that under the Delhi Muslim Wakfs Act (XIII of 1943), there has been established a Sunni Majlis-e-Awkaf; if so, whether the said Sunni Majlis-eAwkaf is the sole Administrator of all the Wakfs in the Province of Delhi;

(b) whether he is aware of the existence of an old mosque and a grave yard attached to it in the Karol Bagh area in New Delhi near the recently constructed Government quarters and that the Muslims do offer their prayers therein;

(c) whether it is a fact that the Central Public Works Department intends to enclose the said mosque by erecting a wall around it and thereby slopping ingress of Muslims in it for offering their prayers;

(d) whether his Department has sought the permission of the Sunni Majlis-e-Awkaf to erect a wail around it; (e) whether it is a fact that on the objections of the Mussalmans offering their prayers in the said mosque the contractor and men of the said Central Public Works Department is of the Central Public Works Department now ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) Yes.

(b) I am not aware of the existence of any old mosque although evidence of an old and unused grave-yard is visible near the recently constructed Government quarters in Karol Bagh. But I am aware of the fact that some Muslim residents of this area have recently built a pucca platform with a thatched roof and an enclosure on this area and say their prayers in this structure. (c) In consultation with the Local Administration, Government have proposed to wall off this area in order to prevent encroachment on this Government land by either the Muslims or the Hindus. In deference to the representations received from representatives of the Muslim

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. IV of 1945, 2nd April 1945. p. 2304.

community this proposal has been now held in abeyance pending clarification of the legal issues involved.

(d) In view of my reply to question (b) this question does not arise.

(e) The Honourable Member is referred to my reply to question (c).

(f) The Honourable Member is referred to my reply to question (c).

Sir Muhammad Yamin Khan : When the Honourable Member says that the Government has decided to built a wall to stop people going on this Government land, may I ask how does it become Government land ? When it is a grave yard, how does the Honourable Member say that it is Government land ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : As at present advised the Government regard this to be Government land; but I am obtaining legal opinion on it.

Sir Muhammad Yamin Khan : Does the Honourable Member call all the English cemeteries and the Hindu Cremation ground as belonging to the Government ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : As I said, I am asking for legal opinion.

Sir Muhammad Yamin Khan : But the Honourable Member has himself said that there is a grave-yard and at the same time he calls it as Government land ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : That is the position as Government is advised at present.

Sir Muhammad Yamin Khan : By whom ?

Mr. President (The Honourable Sir Abdur Rahim): The Honourable Member has already said that he was taking legal opinion.

Sir Muhammad Yamin Khan : By whom is he advised ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : By those who are entitled to advise Government.

Maulvi Muhammad Abdul Ghani : May I know whether Government has made an acquisition of that portion of the land to which the Honourable Member refers as a grave-yard and mosque. The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : It is unnecessary to acquire.