2. The Cabinet Mission and the Untouchables: by Dr. Ambedkar

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

their distribution in individual industries including collieries and plantations since 1939 upto date year by year. (b) What are the monthly earnings of the factory workers in India in different industries since 1939 up to date, year by year, exclusive of dearness allowance and bonus ? (c) What are the figures of dearness allowance and bonus paid to industrial workers in India since 1939 up to date, year by year, according to (i) different industries and (ii) different industrial centres?

(d) Will he please illustrate the effect if any, of war time increase in earnings of industrial workers on the total membership of trade unions and their monetary funds either way?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) A statement is placed on the table. Statistics for 1945 are not yet available. (b) A statement showing the figures of monthly average earnings of factory workers during 1939, 1940, 1941 and 1943 is placed on the table. These are inclusive of dearness allowances paid in cash, figures exclusive of these not being available. The figures are only approximate is they are compiled from statistics of total payments made and do not allow for factors like number of working days in the year, number of working hours etc.

Figures of 1942 are not furnished as it is not clear which of the figures available are inclusive of dearness allowances and which are not.

(c) Full information is not available and Government do not consider that the time needed for collecting and tabulating this will be commensurate with the result. (d) Figures of average earnings of factory workers have been furnished in connection with part (a) of this Question. Statements showing the membership and general funds of trade unions are placed on the table. Government are not in a position to say whether the increase in membership and in the income is attributable to increased wages or to other causes.

* Muslim Administrative Officer in Central Public Works Department

715. Mr. Ahmed E. H. Jaffer : Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state:

(a) the number of posts of Assistant Administrative Officer in the Central Public Works Department, (b) how many of these posts are occupied by Muslims, and (c) if the reply to (b) is in the negative, what steps he has taken to fill the vacant post of Administrative Officer by a suitable Muslim ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) Three. (b) None.

(c) The inference implicit in tills question does not necessarily follow from (a) and (b) because the Central Public Works Department cadre is and must be treated as one. The subject is however, now under consideration.

Mr. Ahmed E. H. Jaffer: Since the reply to (b) is none, may I ask the Honourable Member why a Muslim should not be appointed to the post of Administrative Officer ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I did not quite follow.

Mr. Ahmed E. H. Jaffer: Since there are no Muslim Assistant Administrative Officers, may I ask the Honourable Member why should not the post of Administrative Officer be filled by a Muhammadan ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : It is a matter for consideration. I cannot give a guarantee that the post will be reserved for a particular community.

Mr. Ahmed E. H. Jaffer: Have applications been received for this post?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Applications will not be called for.

Maulana Zafar Ali Khan: Has it been advertised ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Not necessarily.

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. III of 1946, 6th March 1946, p. 1929.

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

Mr. Ahmed E. H. Jaffer : Why will not a Muslim be appointed. The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I said that I cannot give an assurance. Besides, the Government of India cannot accept the principle that any community has a vested right in any particular post.

Mr. Ahmad E. H. Jaffer : Particularly in view of the fact that the Honourable Member’s Department is the worst in the Government of India.........

Mr. President: Order, order. The Honourable Member will please put the question.

Mr. Ahmed E. H. Jaffer : In view of the fact that the Labour Department is not sufficiently representative of Muslims, may I ask the Honourable Member to consider the appointment of a Muslim to the post?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I deny the assumption of the Honourable Member.

Mr. Ahmed E. H. Jaffer : May I………….

Mr. President: I believe there is one misunderstanding under which the Honourable Member is putting his questions. Will he resume his seat ? What the Honourable Member of Government said was that he makes a distinction between a particular post and the quota in the departmental posts. Am I right ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Yes, Sir.

Mr. President: He said he cannot assure a particular post being filled by a particular community. That is different from the quota. Mr. Ahmed E. H. Jaffer : My submission is that in view of the fact that his Department has not the required quota of Muslim of 25 per cent., will he consider the question of appointing Muslims up to the minimum quota ?

Mr. President: Yes, that is proper.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I do not accept the principle that that is the only method.

Mr. Ahmed E. H. Jaffer : Does the Honourable Member deny that his Department has in the services the 25 per cent, quota of Muslims ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I deny it.

Mr. Ahmed E. H. Jaffer : With what result ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I cannot help the result, if there are not sufficient Muslim candidates. That is not my fault. Mr. Ahmed E. H. Jaffer : May I tell the Honourable Member that

this is nothing but a lame excuse on the part of the Honourable Member to say that there are not ‘sufficient Muslim candidates’ when they are really available ?

Mr. President : Order, order. That will be a criticism. The Honourable Member may put his question.

Mr. Ahmed E. H. Jaffer : May I tell the Honourable Member that sufficient Muslims are forthcoming but their claims are overlooked intentionally.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I have nothing to add to what I have said.

390

* Communal Representation in Labour Department

718. Mr. Ahmed E. H. Jaffer : (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state the exact number of joint Secretaries, Deputy Secretaries, Assistant Secretaries, Superintendents, Assistants, Clerks, etc., in the Establishment Branch of the Department of Labour (Main Secretariat) ?

(b) How many Muslims and Non-Muslims are there in each grade ?

If the reply to (b) regarding the Muslims is in the negative, what are the reasons therefor?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) and (b) A statement giving the information is placed on the table. (c) Does not arise.

STATEMENT

Total Muslim Non-Muslim Joint Secretaries 3 1 2 Deputy Secretaries 4 1 3 Assistant Secretaries and Under Secretaries 13 2 11 (including 1 European, 1 Anglo-Indian and 1 Scheduled Caste)

Superintendents 21 6 15 (Including 1 Sikh and 1 Indian Christian)

Assistants in Establishment Branch 9 2 7 Clerks in Establishment Branch 9 … 9 (Including 1 Scheduled Caste)

*Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. III of 1946, 6th March 1946, pp. 1933-35.

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

Mr. Ahmed E. H. Jaffer: Sir, I did not ask for a statement to be laid on the table of the House, but I want the number to be stated on the floor of the House, as I want to ask supplementary questions.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: May I, Sir, give the figures ?

Mr. E. H. Jaffer: There are no figures to give. The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Yes, there are. My learned friend need not assume a threatening attitude. Mr. Ahmed E. H. Jaffer : I am only reciprocating the threatening attitude of the Honourable Member himself. Mr. President: If the list is not too big the Honourable Member may read.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar:

… … … Total Muslim Joint Secretaries … … … … 3 1 Deputy Secretaries … … … … 4 1 Assistant and under Secretaries … … … 13 2 Superintendents … … … … 21 6 Assistants in Establishment Branch … … … 9 2 Clerks in Establishment Branch … … … 9 … Mr. Ahmed E. H. Jaffer : Do these figures include Muslim representation in the Resettlement and Employment Directorate ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: I must have notice of that question.

Mr. Ahmed E. H. Jaffer : I asked for the figures of the Labour Department of the Main Secretariat. Cannot the Honourable Member say ‘Yes’ or ‘No’, whether these figures include the figures of Muslim representation in the Resettlement and Employment Directorate or not ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: I must have notice of that question.

Haji Abdus Sattar Haji Ishaq Seth : Will the Honourable Member kindly tell us what Department in answer to the question in the establishment branch of the Department. The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : It is the Main Secretariat. As I said I want notice in order to be accurate in my information.

Mr. Ahmed E. H. Jaffer : Is the Honourable Member aware that the Resettlement and Employment Directorate is quite separate from the Main Secretariat?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: Of course I am aware.

Mr. Manu Subedar : Why is this large army of Joint Secretaries, Deputy Secretaries, Assistant and Under Secretaries necessary for the Labour Department and may I know whether my Honourable friend would not satisfy my Muslim friends by reducing some of the other communities in order to restore the Muslim proportion which they want?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I do not want to express any opinion on the Honourable Member’s question. Prof. N. G. Ranga: Muslimise the whole Department. Shri Sri Prakas : May I submit in all humility that the Government may lay on the table before the beginning of every session a full list of all the various communities in the various departments, so that the necessity for most of these questions may be obviated and temper kept under control ? Mr. Ahmed E. H. Jaffer : In view of the Government Resolution of the Home Department of 1934 fixing a 25 per cent. Quota for the Muslims and in view of the fact that there is shortage of Muslim representation in accordance with this resolution in the Labour Department, will the Honourable Member rectify and make up the quota by employing more Muslims ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : The posts to which I have made reference in the course of my reply are not posts which are governed by communal representation. They are promotion posts.

Mr. Ahmed E. H. Jaffer : May I take it that the resolution does not apply to his Department?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : The Honourable Member ought to read the Government Resolution more carefully than he seems to have done.

Mr. Ahmed E. H. Jaffer : The other day in reply to Dr. Sir Ziauddin Ahmed the Honourable the Home Member said that Government Resolution does apply to the Labour Department will he transfer the resolution to the Honourable Labour Member ?

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: I know the resolution very well.

Mr. President: Next question.

Mr. Ahmed E. H. Jaffer : One more question, Sir, Is the Deputy Secretary’s post a Class I post.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: There is no such thing as a Class I post there.

391

* Loss of Public Money in the ‘Delhi Store Sub-Division Embezzlement Case’

719. Mr. Ahmed E. H. Jaffer: (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member please give the approximate amount of loss of public money in the ‘ Delhi Store Sub-Division Embezzlement Case ?

(b) Who were the culprits, and what action has so far been taken to bring them to book ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) There is no such case as “Delhi Store Sub-Division Embezzlement Case”. If the Honourable Member has in mind the case of alleged over payment in cartage of cement in Stores Sub-Division under Construction Division No. I, I can inform him that the matter is under investigation.

(b) Does not arise.

Mr. Ahmed E. H. Jaffer : Is it a fact that the S. D. O. in question who embezzled two lakhs is still in service ? Mr. President: Order, order. The Honourable Member has already stated that there was no embezzlement Mr. Ahmed E. H. Jaffer: I entirely agree with the Honourable Member’s reply. The point which he refers to is the same that a sum of two lakhs was overpaid.

Mr. President: My point is that the Honourable Member has replied that there is no case of embezzlement but only a case of overpayment. In his next question the Honourable Member need not again presume embezzlement—he can put a question on the over payment.

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. III of 1946, 6th March 1946, pp. 1935-36.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: The matter is under investigation and unless and until the result of that investigation is known Government cannot take any action against the officer. Mr. Ahmed E. H. Jaffer: I ask whether the S. D. O. concerned who is responsible for this over-payment of 2 lakhs is still in service. The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: Of course he is. Mr. Ahmed E. H. Jaffer : Why ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: Because the case is not yet proved against him.

Mr. Ahmed E. H. Jaffer : In such cases where matters are under investigation is it not the practice to keep the officer concerned under suspension?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: Not unless we receive the report of the investigation.

Mr. Ahmed E. H. Jaffer: Is it because he is of the Scheduled Caste ?

Haji Abdus Sattar Haji Seth: With regard to part (a) about the amount involved-cannot my friend tell me what the amount involved is?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I must have notice of the question. As regards Mr. Jaffer’s question, I would like to inform the Honourable Member that the man does not belong to the Scheduled Castes.

Prof. N. G. Ranga : Even if he did belong to the Scheduled Caste, is it wrong not to suspend a man when there is a case against him ? Mr. President: Order, order—No argument.

Sri M. Ananthasayanam Ayyangar : How long has this been under investigation and is it departmental or by the police ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : So far as I remember— I cannot say definitely—the matter of course is investigated by the C. D.

392

* Grievances of Muslims Re: Appointments as Superintending Engineers

720. Mr. Muhammad Rahmat-Ullah: (a) Has the attention of the Honourable the Labour Member been drawn to the articles

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. III of 1946, 6th March 1946, p. 1936.

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

published in the Dawn of the 27th October, 12th November and 19th December, 1945 ? What action has been taken to redress the grievances of the Mussalmans ? If not, why not ? (b) Is it not a fact that out of the fourteen Superintending Engineers only one is a Muslim ?

(c) Are Government aware that there are three qualified Executive Engineers in the Headquarters who are competent to hold the office of Superintending Engineer? (d) Are Government aware that persons of less qualifications and standing of other communities have been appointed Superintending Engineers, if so, why were the claims of the Mussalmans ignored ?

(e) Are Government aware that an I. S. E. Muslim Executive Engineer was ignored and the chance of a Superintending Engineer in the Headquarters Office was given to an officer who has risen from the ranks and is to retire very shortly ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) I have seen the articles. The posts in the Central Public Works Department which are subject to the operation of the communal representation rules, are duly filled in accordance with the requirement of those rules. It is, however, not possible to earmark individual posts for officers of a particular community.

(b) Yes.

(c) It is not clear which Executive Engineers the Honourable Member referring to. None of the Executive Engineers of the Central Public Works Department who are posted in Delhi have, however, become due for promotion to the rank of Superintending Engineer.

(d) and (e) The posts of Superintending Engineer are Selection Posts and appointments to these are made purely on the basis of merit. In filling these posts the claims of all eligible Executive Engineers are considered and the officer who is considered to be most suitable is appointed. The case of the I. S. E. Muslim Officer mentioned by the Honourable Member was also duly considered.

* Grant of Money for Taming River Kosi in Bihar

734. Shri Satya Narayan Sinha: (a) Is the Honourable the Labour Member aware that the Governor General, during his last tour of Bihar, had flown to the area devastated by the vagaries of the river Kosi and that he was so much impressed with the pitiable situation obtaining there that he decided to move the Central Government for granting an adequate amount for taming the river and thus to save the lives and properties of the millions of the people concerned ? If so, what is being done in that regard ?

(b) Has any project been made ready ? If not, what steps are being taken to expedite the matter which concerns the question of life and death for millions of people ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) The Governor General during a recent tour did fly over the area devastated by the Kosi floods and did cause a communication to be sent to the Labour Department emphasising the importance of controlling the river as early as possible. (b) The Central Waterways, Irrigation and Navigation Commission are conducting the investigations. They have with the permission of the government of Nepal started aerial and ground surveys and the geological and hydrological investigations for the purpose. Investigation is being conducted with a view to planning the control of the Kosi by means of a storage dam in the Nepal Himalayas. Such dam will not only store surplus flood water and the large volumes of coarse silt carried by it and so prevent the damage at present caused by Kosi floods but it is hoped will also provide water for perennial irrigation of an area estimated at 3 million in both Nepal and Bihar and also will offer opportunities for the generation of cheap hydroelectric power. The investigation is being treated as one of high priority.

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. III of 1946, 6th March 1946, p. 1949.

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

394

* Loss to Junior Copyholders in Government Press, New Delhi

740. Maulana Zafar Ali Khan : (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member kindly state whether it is a fact that in the Government of India Press, New Delhi many Junior Readers are sustaining a loss of Rs. 10 or Rs. 5 per month in their promotion from the post of a Copyholder to that of a Junior Reader, and that the rate of increment too is Rs. 5 per annum in the case of Copyholders whereas Rs. 3 only for Junior Readers ?

(b) What steps do Government propose to take to compensate them for their monetary loss and redress the anomaly in the existing rates of pay of a Copyholder and a Junior Reader ? (c) Is it also a fact that the arrears of the unified scale of pay to Copyholders sanctioned in the month of July, 1945, still remain unpaid, in spite of there being several representations in person ?

(d) What are the reasons therefor, and do Government propose to give any compensation for such delay under the Payment of Wages Act ? If not, why not ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: (a) Yes, in the case of those Copyholders who chose the unified scale of pay and were later promoted as Junior Readers.

(b) The question is under consideration.

(c) Yes.

(d) Although issued in July 1945 the orders had retrospective effect from September 1st 1944. Time had to be allowed to the employees concerned to elect for the unified scale. Then the pay of those who chose the scale had to be fixed allowing each the benefit of past service to the extent of three years. The accounts authorities are pre-auditing the bills. Payment will be made shortly. The reply to the latter portion of the question is in the negative.

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. Ill of 1946, 6th March 1946, p. 1952.

* Muslim Gazetted Officers in Estate Office

741. Khan Bahadur Makhdum Al-Haj Syed Sher Shah Jeelani:

(a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member kindly state the existing number of the Gazetted posts in the Estate Office, New Delhi ?

(b) How many out of them are being held by Muslims ? (c) Is the Honourable Member aware of the fact that in 1943 it was decided by the Labour Department in consultation with the Home Department that the posts of the Assistant Estate Officers will be filled by promotion from amongst the highly qualified Superintendents of the Central Public Works Department ? If so, does the Honourable Member propose to see that the policy once laid down is adhered to ? (d) Do Government propose to see that the post now vacant which was reserved for a Muslim is under the rules filled by another Muslim in replacement ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) Five.

(b) None at present.

(c) Although prior to the separation of the Estate Office from the Central Public Works Department Organisation, the normal method of recruitment to the post of Assistant Estate Officer in the office of the Chief Engineer was by selection and promotion from among the Superintendents in that office, this position has since changed. The Estate Office now is not a part of Central Public Works Department but is directly under Labour Department. The Superintendents in the Chief Engineer’s Office have therefore no claim now as of right for promotion to the post of Assistant Estate Officer in the Estate Office, but their cases may also be considered on merits when filling any of these posts.

(d) The question as to how the post which is now vacant should be filled is still under consideration.

Mr. Muhammad Nauman : With reference to Part (b) may I know how these five posts were filled and were there no Muslims who could be considered fit to occupy these posts ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: I must have notice of this question.

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. III of 1946, 6th March 1946, p. 1952.

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

396

* Stoppage of Employment of Forced Labour

743. Sri M. Ananthasayanam Ayyangar: Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state : (a) the extent of forced labour in this country, (b) what steps, if any, Government propose to take to stop the employment of forced labour in this country, (c) whether any steps have been taken by Government to fix a minimum standard of wages for agricultural and industrial labourers in several parts of this country, and (d) whether Government is proposing to take any steps either by legislation or otherwise to see that labour is adequately and regularly paid, if so, what, if not, why not ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: (a) No detailed information is available.

(b) The attention of the Honourable Member is drawn to the reply given to Starred Question No. 381 of Professor N. G. Ranga, on 20th February 1946.

(c) Proposals for minimum wage legislation for agricultural and industrial labour are under consideration. (d) The proposed minimum wage legislation will provide for fixing minimum wages and for ensuring payment of wages at not less than the rates fixed.

397 @ Muslims for Advance Training in Electrical Engineering

747. Seth Yusuf Abdoola Haroon : Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state— (a) the number of Electrical Engineers selected by the Electrical Commissioner on behalf of the Labour Department and deputed

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. III of 1946, 6th March 1946, p. 1955. @ Ibid., p. 1957.

overseas for advance training in the Electrical Engineering last year, (b) the number of Muslims thus selected, (c) if it is a fact that this selection was made without the publicity being given through the Press, if so, why, and (d) if the Muslim quota has not been kept up in the last batch, whether the Honourable Member proposes to give an assurance that a larger number of Muslims will be included in the next selection ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) Selected—10, Deputed overseas—9 (b) One.

(c) The Provinces and major States were apprised of the scheme for training of Indians abroad and asked to make a preliminary selection of suitable candidates. 24 names were put forward by them of whom 22 appeared for interview and ten selected. There was therefore no necessity to give publicity to the scheme in the Press.

(d) The Provinces and Major States recommended only one Muslim for selection and he was selected by Government. As such, the latter portion of this part of the question does not arise. 398

* Appointments to the Post of Administrative Officer, Central P.W.D.

752. Sardar Mangal Singh: Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state— (a) the number of persons who have sucessively held the post of Administrative Officer, Central Public Works Department so far, (b) to which community each one belonged, (c) whether it is a fact that no Sikh or a Hindu has so far been appointed to this post, if so, why, and (d) if he proposes to consider the advisability of appointing a Sikh to the post which is now lying vacant, if not, why not ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) Four.

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. III of 1946, 6th March, 1946, p. 1959.

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

(b) The communities to which the Officers belonged were as follows— (1) Anglo-Indian (2) Muslim.

(3) Anglo-Indian (4) Muslim.

(c) Yes. The orders regarding communal representation in the public services are not applied singly to the post of Administrative Officer but to all Class I posts in the Central P.W.D. taken together. It is, therefore, not possible to ensure that the post of Administrative Officer is filled by a member of a particular community.

(d) The question of filling the post is still under consideration. 399

* Application of Payment of Wages Act to Jodhpur Railway

756. Seth Sukhdev : Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state— (a) whether it is a fact that the provisions of the Payment of Wages Act IV of 1936 apply to the portion of the Jodhpur Railway running through British India, if so, why the Conciliation Officer (Railways) and the Supervisor of Railway Labour’s annual reports for three years 1941-44., published in the Indian Labour Gazette, contain no reference to Jodhpur Railway, and (b) if the information in regard to the inspection of the British portion of the Jodhpur Railway is available for these years whether the Honourable Member proposes to lay a statement on the table of the House giving the following information for the Jodhpur Railway— (1) the number of staff (i) adults, (ii) children, (iii) substitutes and (iv) total wages paid to them, (2) the number of employees fined and the amount of fine recovered,

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. III of 1946, 6th March, 1946, p. 1961.

(3) the number of employees debited with loss or damage of goods and the amount so recovered, and (4) the number of inspections held and irregularities noted ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) The answer to first part of the question is in the affirmative. The note published in the Indian Labour Gazette contains of the Payment of Wages Act on Railways.

(b) (1) to (3) A statement containing the available information is placed on the table of the House.

(4) The information is not readily available. Statement showing the staff employed by the Jodhpur Railway Administrations in factories and otherwise than in factories in the British Section of the Railway according to the returns submitted in pursuance of the provisions of Rule 17 of the Payment of Wages (Federal Railway) Rules 1938.

1941-42 1942-43 1943-44 Total number of persons employed— Adults … 1901 1933 2024 Children … Nil Nil Nil Total wages paid … Rs. 5,82,379 Rs. 6,35,938 Rs. 6,21,433 Number of employees fined … 128 102 140 Amount of fine recovered … Rs. 41 Rs. 31 Rs. 48 Number of employees debited with loss or damage of goods.

1,102 1,127 1,303 Amount recovered for damage … Rs. 1,287 Rs. 1,129 Rs. 1,985 400

* Disposal of U. S. Army Chapel in New Delhi

764. Sri S. T. Adityan : Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state whether the U. S. Army Chapel, Parliament Street, New Delhi, is going to be surrendered to Government, if so, what Government propose to do with it ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Yes, the matter is now under consideration.

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. III of 1946, 6th March 1946, p. 1971.

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

401

* Release of Personnel from Government Departments

769. Mr. Manu Subedar : (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state the total number of men, temporary and permanent, who are to be released in 1946 from (i) the War Department, including Army, Navy and Air Force (ii) Railways, and (iii) other Departments of Government ?

(b) Is it a fact that some of them have put in exemplary service and are being now released ?

(c) What steps are Government taking for getting them reabsorbed in other Departments ? (d) What special works do Government propose to set up for getting these men re-absorbed ?

(e) Is it a fact that, simultaneously while Indians from various services are being thrown out of work, Britishers are being recruited for other services ?

(f) Have Government considered the desirability of stopping such recruitment and taking Indians by giving them an opportunity to adapt themselves for other work for which fresh recruitment is started ?

(g) 70 per cent of posts ordinarily filled by direct recruitment occuring in Central Government and in the various Provincial Governments, and what is the machinery devised by Government to make necessary arrangements ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) The information is not readily available. It is being collected and will be laid on the table in due course.

(b) Yes.

(c) Instructions have been issued requiring Departments to arrange for the registration at Employment Exchange of discharged personnel and directing them to fill vacancies as far as possible through Employment Exchanges.

(d) Central and Provincial Governments are embarking on schemes selected out of the five-year plans with the special object of

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. III of 1946, 6th March 1946, p. 1972.

counteracting any tendency to deflation and unemployment. These include productive schemes and schemes of economic importance which may not be self-financing, e.g. minor irrigation, roads, anti-errosion, agricultural measures, forests, etc. The two categories will provide inter alia considerable scope for building works, training and research, resettlement of ex-servicemen. Some other schemes, outside the five-year plan, e.g. public health schemes, especially anti-malarial measures, water supply and drainage schemes, which will provide a considerable volume of employment, are also being taken up.

(e) No, except in those cases where specialists are required for particular appointments or the number is small and is required in the public interest.

(f) Does not arise.

(g) 70 per cent of posts ordinarily filled by direct recruitment occuring between the 20th June 1942 and 31st December 1945, have been reserved for ‘war service’ candidates. Information regarding proportion of vacancies reserved by various Provincial Governments is not readily available. Applications for war reserved Vacancies in the superior services have been invited from candidates and the last date of the receipt of applications was 15th February 1946 in respect of vacancies in non-technical services and 1st April 1946 in respect of vacancies in technical services. Candidates for technical services will be interviewed by the Federal Public Service Commission who will make a final selection. Candidates for the non-technical services will be first tested by Selection Boards of the type used by the War Department for recruiting officers for Commissions and subsequently interviewed by the F.P.S.C. who will make a final selection. In respect of vacancies in the Subordinate and Inferior Service arrangements have been made to receive applications from ex-servicemen after they are demobilised. . 402

* Conditions of Service of Staff in Viceregal Estates Division

70. Sardar Mangal Singh : Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state the detailed conditions of service, i.e., scale of

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. III of 1946, 6th March 1946, p. 1974.

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

pay, other free concessions granted and the place of duty, etc., under which the clerical and subordinate staff used to be employed in the Viceregal Estates Division at Simla or Delhi prior to the 14th July 1946 ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : A statement is laid on the table. ( See p. 988).

403

* Application of Hours of Employment Regulations to Jodhpur Railway

71. Seth Sukhdev : Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state :

(a) whether the Hours of Employment Regulations apply to the Jodhpur Railway portion running through die British India, (b) if the reply to (a) above be in the affirmative, why no reference to it is made in the Conciliation Officer and Supervisor of Railway Labour’s report for three years 1941-44, published in the issue of the Indian Labour Gazette for December 1945, and (c) whether the Honourable Member will please lay on the table of the House a statement showing the following information for the British portion of the Jodhpur Railway, separately, for three years, 1941-44 — (i) the number of staff employed, (ii) the number of staff affected by the regulations, (iii) the number of staff classed as continuous workers, (iv) the number of staff classed as ‘essentially intermittent workers’, (v) the number of staff excluded, (vi) the percentage of staff enjoying calendar day’s rest, (vii) the number of inspections held, (viii) the number of cases in which the classification was challenged by the Labour Inspectorate, (ix) the number of doubtful cases which were referred to the Labour Department of the Government of India for decision, and

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. III of 1946, 6th March 1946, p. 1976.

STATEMENT

(See S. No. 403, reply by Dr. Ambedkar to Q. No. 70) Sr.

No. Name Designation Scale of Pay Pay at the time of transfers from the viceregal Estates Nature of free Concessions enjoyed Place of duty 1 Mr. Hussain Ali Sanitary Overseer Rs.

80—7—255 Rs.

241 Rent-free accommodation and exemption from payment of taxes, water rates and lighting charges.

New Delhi 2 Mr. Shiv Saran Das Building Supervisor 200-10-400 340 ” ” 3 Mr. B. G. Mathur „ ” 290 ” Simla 4 Mr. B. C. Banerjee ” ” 200 ” Calcutta 5 Mr. Mohan Lai Draftsman 60-5-150 130 ” New Delhi 6 Mr. Madho Narain Sub-Overseer 75–4–95–5–150 135 ” Simla 7 Mr. P. N. Chatterjee Electrical Supervisor 200-10-400 400 ” ”

1. Retired

2. Since Died

3. Retired 4–7. No more in the Viceregal Estate Division.

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

(x) the number of employees discovered working beyond rostered hours (i) habitually and (ii) occasionally ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) The answer is in the negative.

(b) Does not arise.

(c) Information is not readily available.

404

* Statutory Rules re Inspections of Railway Contractors’ Labour

72. Seth Sukhdev : Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state :

(a) whether his attention has been drawn to a remark in the report of the Conciliation Officer (Railways) and Supervisor of Railway Labour, for the years 1941-44, published in the Indian Labour Gazette for November, 1945 to the effect that the Labour Inspectorate appointed under the Payment of Wages Act, was handicapped in the inspection of Railway Contractor’s Labour Establishments in the absence of statutory rules requiring contractors to maintain registers of wages, fines and deductions, and (b) whether it is proposed to amend the statutory rules, if so, when, if not, why not ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) The answer is in the affirmative. (b) The matter is under consideration. 405 @ Factories (Amendment) Bill Presentation of the Report of the Select Committee The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar (Labour Member) : Sir, I present the Report of the Select Committee on the Bill further to amend the Factories Act, 1934.

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central). Vol. III of 1946, 6th March 1946, p. 1998. @ Ibid., p. 1999.

* Housing Conditions of Labourers Employed by Central P.W.D. and Building Contractors in New Delhi

867. Shri M. Ananthasayanam Ayyangar : Will the Honourable the Labour Member please state :

(a) the number of labourers employed directly under the Central Public Works Department and by building contractors in New Delhi for the construction of buildings in New Delhi and near about, (b) if it is a fact that these labourers are housed in miserable ill-ventilated hovels, exposed to the vagaries of the weather all the time in sun, and rain and cold, and (c) if the answer to (b) above is in the affirmative, what steps he proposes to take in order to provide them with cheap and sanitary housing arrangements, if none, why ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) About 12,000 labourers are employed directly under the C.P.W.D. whereas the number of labourers employed by the building contractors varies with the magnitude of the building programme. (b) Some of the C.P.W.D. labourers have been allotted Government quarters and others have made their own arrangements for residential accommodation.

As regards the labourers employed by the contractors, about 9,000live in their houses in the urban area of Delhi. The remaining labourers who come from outside either come to the work daily from their villages or are accommodated by the contractors at the site of the works in thatched huts which give them a certain amount of protection against sun, rain and cold. (c) The Government have already considered the question of providing permanent accommodation to the labourers employed by the contractors and are considering the development of model bustees in the villages near Delhi, from which labour comes. Government’s scheme for subsidised housing for the poorer sections of the people

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. III of 1946, 12th March 1946, p. 2224.

L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

should also assist in the provision of better housing for contractors’ labourers.

The question of providing housing facilities to C.P.W.D. labourers who have not been provided with Government accommodation is under Government’s active consideration. 407

* Making Mica a Central Subject

890. Shri Satya Narayan Sinha : (a) Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state whether it is a fact that the British Parliament is going to amend the Government of India Act in such a way as to make Mica a Central subject? (b) If so, will the Honourable Member kindly have it postponed till the representative Government is ushered in Bihar, which is a question of a few weeks ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) A bill has been introduced in the British Parliament to amend the Government of India Act in such a way as to give the Centre power to make laws in regard to certain matters including Mica for the transitional period from War to Peace.

(b) For the long period Government are considering the introduction of legislation in this House with reference to Item 36 of List I of the Government of India Act to bring certain aspects of Mica under Central Control.

408 @ Grievances of Employees of Government Press, Aligarh

896. Pandit Sri Krishna Dutt Paliwal : Will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state :

(a) whether the employees of the Government Press, Aligarh, have given notice of strike, if so, what are their grievances and demands,

* Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. III of 1946, 12th March 1946, p. 2236. @ Ibid., p. 2238.

(b) if Government intend to give them a minimum living wage, if so, when, and how much, (c) the amenities provided to them such a bathing facilities, outdoor games, education of children, provision of quarters and medical aid, (d) their working period per week, and whether Government propose to reduce these hours to 40 per week, (e) if Government propose to supply them foodgrains at concession rates similar to those enjoyed by the Delhi Press and other Government Departments, and (f) whether Government intend to abolish the piece wage system and introduce monthly pay on the basis of the wages earned by the employees at present ?

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) Yes. The grievances are :

(i) reduction made by the Government of U. P. in the rationing of wheat, (ii) revision of pay and grades, (iii) concessional rates of foodgrains on the lines of concession allowed to Government servants in Delhi, (iv) abolition of piece rates, (v) revision of working hours, and (vi) provision of quarters.

The immediate cause of the notice of a strike is the reduction in wheat rationing.

(b) The question is a general one which is engaging the attention of Government.

(c) No facilities exist at present other than for outdoor games and medical attendance. The question of granting other facilities is under consideration.

(d) The weekly working hours are 48. The question whether a reduction is advisable is being considered. (e) No. The Employees of the Aligarh Press get foodgrains at concession rates on the lines of the U. P. Government’s orders. (f) The present policy of Government is to substitute gradually time scales of pay for both piece rates as opportunities occur.