II Questions asked by Dr. Ambedkar and Replies given by the Government

APPENDIX II

QUESTIONS ASKED BY Dr. B. R.

AMBEDKAR AND REPLIES GIVEN BY THE GOVERNMENT

Government Service : Selection Board Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Will Government be pleased to state— (a) whether there is any selection board constituted for the purpose of selecting candidates applying for the vacancies in the Provincial and Subordinate Services of the Government of Bombay ;

(b) if so, the names of the members who constitute that Board ? The Honourable Sir Chunilal Mehta : No single Board exists for selecting candidates for the Provincial and Subordinate Services of the Government of Bombay. For certain of the Provincial Services selection committees have been constituted. Appointments to the Subordinate Services are made by the heads of offices under powers delegated to them or by the Local Government. Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Will the Honourable Member state whether he can give the names of the members of the Committees constituted for the Provincial Services ? He says that for certain of the Provincial Services selection committees have been formed.

The Honourable Sir Chunilal Mehta : I am afraid I cannot carry the names of the members in my head. If the honourable member gives notice, I shall supply the names. But I think there is not a fixed list of members of these committees ; they change, I believe, every year or from time lo time. (B.L.C. Debates, Vol. XIX, p. 325, dated 28th February 1927) Acquisition and Improvement of Land for Village Sites Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Sir, I rise to a point of information. I do not exactly understand the object for which this amount is provided in the present budget. I should like to know from the Honourable Member in-charge whether it is expended for the purposes of establishing new settlements of villagers who are dissatisfied with their own village sites, or whether the amount is spent for providing amenities to the villagers, or for what purpose. There is certainly no information given either in the

Blue Book or the White Book to enable new members like myself understand the exact purpose of this amount. I, therefore, hope that some enlightenment will be thrown on this subject.

(B.L.C. Debates, Vol. XIX, p. 421, dated 1st March 1927) Superintendents of Land Records Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Sir, I do not think that much argument need be wasted on this motion. The motion is based upon the ground that these superintendents who are provided in the budget at a cost of Rs. 35,800 do work which ordinarily in the course of things can be done and discharged by the deputy collectors. The only answer to this argument is that the deputy collectors are not in a position to do this work. The reply given by the honourable member, the Settlement Commissioner, does not seem to me to touch on that aspect of the question. Nobody here in this House disputes that the work done by them is useful work necessary in the interest of society, but, Sir, the point and the important point is whether such work cannot be done by deputy collectors. If the reply to that is in the affirmative, then Government has no case at all, and I should like Government to clear that point in order to enable new members like me to decide one way or the other. (B.L.C. Debates, Vol. XIX, p. 453, dated 3rd March 1927) Deputy Collectorship : Application of Mr. M. K. Jadhav Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Will Government be pleased to state— (i) Whether Mr. M. K. Jadhav, B.A. (Hons.), Bombay, applied for one of the three posts of Deputy Collector recently filled up by the Revenue Department of the Government of Bombay ?

(ii) Whether they were aware that he belonged to the depressed classes ? (iii) The reasons why his application was rejected ?

Honourable Mr. J. L. Rieu : (i) Yes.

(ii) Yes.

(iii) Government regret that they are not prepared to state the reasons why Mr. Jadhav or any other individual candidate was not selected. Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Did Government apply the rule of 50 per cent. reserved posts for depressed classes in Government service when filling up the appointments ?

The Honourable Mr. J. L. Rieu : The rule does not apply at all. It applies to clerical staff only.

Mr. W. S. Mukadam : Will Government be pleased to give us the names of the candidates selected ?

The Honourable Mr. J. L. Rieu : The honourable member will find it from records.

Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Is the exclusion of Mr. Jadhav consistent with

the policy of Government of encouraging the depressed classes ? The Honourable Mr. J. L. Rieu : It is not inconsistent with it. (B.L.C. Debates, Vol. XIX, p. 545, dated 5th March 1927) Admission of Depressed Classes to Public Places Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Will Government be pleased to state what steps they have taken to carry into effect Mr. Bole’s resolution to throw open to the depressed classes all public places in this presidency ? The Honourable Sir Ghulam Hussain : Attention is invited to the Press Note No. P-117, dated the 29th September 1923 (copy below for ready reference) issued by the Director of Information.

Press Note No. P-117, dated the 29th September 1923 (With the Compliments of the Director of Information, Bombay) THE UNTOUCHABLE CLASSES GOVERNMENT AND COUNCIL RESOLUTIONS At the last session of the Bombay Legislative Council, on the motion of Mr. S. K. Bole, a resolution was passed recommending that “the untouchable classes be allowed to use all public watering places, wells and dharamshalas which are built and maintained out of public funds or are administered by bodies appointed by Government or erected by Statutes as well as public schools, courts, offices and dispensaries.”

In pursuance of this resolution Government have directed their officers to give effect to it as far as it relates to the public places and institutions belonging to and maintained by Government. The Collectors have been requested to advise the local public bodies to consider the desirability of accepting the recommendation made in the resolution. The Bombay and Karachi Port Trusts, the Bombay City Improvement Trust and the Municipal Corporation have also been requested to give effect to the resolution with regard to the places under their control.

Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Is the honourable member aware that the depressed classes in several places are prevented from taking advantage of the public places provided by the public bodies, by the ordinary villagers in the villages ? The Honourable Sir Ghulam Hussain : Not to my knowledge. (B.L.C. Debates, Vol. XIX, p. 546, dated 5th March 1927) Assistant Educational Inspector for Depressed Classes Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Will Government be pleased to state— (i) Why Mr. G. G. Kamble was reduced from his post of Extra Assistant Educational Inspector for the Depressed Classes ?

(ii) Whether the said post has been abolished ?

(iii) If so, why ?

The Honourable Dewan Bahadur Harilal D. Desai : (i) Mr. Kamble was reverted because he failed to justify his existence, there being no real improvement in the schools placed under his charge.

(ii) Yes.

(iii) The post was abolished because the control of primary schools having been transferred to the local authorities under the Bombay Primary Education Act, 1923, there was no longer any necessity for Government to continue to maintain it.

Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Does not Government think it necessary that the benefit of a special assistant educational inspector should be extended to the depressed classes schools ?

The Honourable Dewan Bahadur Harilal D. Desai : In the first instance, Government created the special post. The schools have now been transferred to the local bodies, and if Government find it necessary to make such an appointment, they will consider the matter.

(B.L.C. Debates, Vol. XIX, p. 604, dated 7th March 1927) Judgments of Mr. Fleming, City Magistrate Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Will Government be pleased to state— (a) whether their attention has been drawn to the judgments delivered by Mr. Fleming, City Magistrate, Poona, in the two recent criminal cases (i) Emperor v. Baburao Fule and (ii) Emperor v. Javalkar and others in both of which the accused were charged under section 500 of the Indian Penal Code ;

(b) whether they are aware that Mr. Fleming has delivered contradictory judgments on a common point of law involved in both the cases, viz., whether the complainant is an aggrieved person within the meaning of section 198 of the Criminal Procedure Code ;

(c) whether they have called for an explanation from Mr. Fleming as to why he delivered such contradictory judgments ;

(d) whether they propose to take any steps against Mr. Fleming in this connection ?

The Honourable Mr. J. E. B. Hotson : (a) to (d) The remedies provided by the law are open to any person who considers himself aggrieved by a magistrate’s judgment. Government could not without gross impropriety express an opinion in this House on the points to which this question refers. Mr. S. K. Bole : The answer is given only to ( b) and not to (a), (c) or ( d). The Honourable Mr. J. E. B. Hotson : The answer is to all four parts of the question.

Mr. S. K. Bole : The question in ( a) is “whether their attention is drawn to the judgments delivered by Mr. Fleming” but there is no answer to that.

The Honourable Mr. J. E. B. Hotson : I think, it is implied. The attention of Government has been drawn to them.

Mr. S. K. Bole : Again, in ( b) the question is “whether they are aware that Mr. Fleming has delivered contradictory judgments” but there is no answer to that.

The Honourable Mr. J. E. B. Hotson : Yes, the reply is there, “Government could not without gross impropriety express an opinion in this House” etc. Mr. S. K. Bole : What is asked is whether they are aware. The Honourable the President : The word “contradictory” implies and asks for opinion, and therefore that reply.

(B.L.C. Debates, Vol. XIX, p. 1147, dated 16th March 1927) Assault by Mulki Patil on a Mahar (Chikhardi)

Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Will Government be pleased to state— (a) whether it is a fact that the Mulki Patil of the village Chikhardi in the Sholapur District committed an assault on Arjuna Lala Mahar for refusing to do his private work and fractured his skull ;

(b) whether it is a fact that Arjuna is now being treated for his injury at the Civil Hospital, Barsi ;

(c) if so, what steps they have taken against the Patil ? The Honourable Mr. J. L. Rieu : The information has been called for. (B.L.C. Debates, Vol. XIX, p. 1147, dated 16th March 1927) Harassment of Mahars (Sholapur)

Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Will Government be pleased to state— (a) whether it is a fact that the Gaonkaris of the villages of (i) Ralerass, (ii) Pangaon, (iii) Pangri, (iv) Uple Dumala, (v) Ambegaon and (vi) Surdi in the District of Sholapur have been acting in conspiracy to stop the ryots and shop-keepers of their respective villages from having any dealings with the Mahars of their villages and have assaulted the Mahars of their villages and have in some cases outraged the modesty of the Mahar women and have gone to the length of throwing filth in the water-courses used by the Mahars because the Mahars in these villages have in their efforts at self-improvement given up the carrying of the carcasses of dead animals ; (b) what steps they propose to take to protect the Mahars from such tyranny.

The Honourable Mr. J. E. B. Hotson : The information is being obtained. (B.L.C. Debates, Vol. XIX, p. 1298, dated 17th March 1927) Accident on the Ulhas River Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Will Government be pleased to state— (a) whether their attention has been drawn to the leading article published in the Pratiyogi, dated the 13th February 1926, and the extracts of statements

of the people of Badlapur published in the Pratiyogi, dated the 12th June 1926 ;

(b) if so, whether they still withhold the permission to prosecute as asked for ?

The Honourable Sir Cowasji Jehangir : (a) Government have noticed a summary of the article published in the Pratiyogi, dated the 13th February 1926, but not the extracts of statements of the people of Badlapur published in the issue of the paper of 12th June 1926.

(b) Yes.

(B.L.C. Debates, Vol. XX, p. 759, dated 27th July 1927) Public Service : Depressed Classes Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Will Government be pleased to give the following information regarding the strength of the depressed classes in the public service :— District Department Number of depressed classes employed As peons On the staff The Honourable Sir Chunilal Mehta : The information has been called for. (B.L.C. Debates, Vol. XX, p. 847, dated 27th July 1927) Watandar Mahars : Remuneration Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Will Government be pleased to give the following information for each village in the Presidency :— Village Totalpopulation No. ofofficiatingmahars Remuneration to officiating mahars estimated from all sources, in rupees Total remunerationFrom inami and From Baluta Government salary The Honourable Mr. J. L. Rieu : As the time and trouble involved in obtaining the information would be out of all proportions to its possible utility from the public point of view. Government regret that they are not prepared to collect it. If the Honourable Member will select a small number of typical villages for this enquiry, Government will consider whether it is practicable to supply the information he desires in regard to them. Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : It is not a fact that the information asked for in this question is obtainable from the watan proceedings of every village ? The Honourable Mr. J. L. Rieu : In any case I would call the honourable member’s attention to the fact that this question would have to be sent to

every village in the Bombay Presidency. The labour and time involved in collecting this information would be enormous.

(B.L.C. Debates, Vol. XX, p. 1065, dated 27th July 1927) Officiating Watandar Mahars Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Will Government be pleased to state— (a) whether there are any rules governing the number of the officiating Watandar Mahars in the villages in the different parts of the presidency ? (b) if so, whether they will publish them or refer to them ? The Honourable Mr. J. L. Rieu : (a) and (b) There are no rules on the subject. The appointment of officiating Watandar Mahars is governed by the provisions of section 64 of the Bombay Hereditary Offices Act. Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Is the Honourable Member aware that discretion is left to the Collector under section 64 in exercise of which he can make rules regarding officiating Watandar Mahars ?

The Honourable Mr. J. L. Rieu : I am aware of that.

Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Is the honourable member aware that in a certain village 16 Mahars are officiating as Watandars ?

The Honourable Mr. J. L. Rieu : If the honourable member gives notice I will make enquiries.

(B.L.C. Debates, Vol. XX, p. 1207, dated 27th July 1927) Bridge on the Ulhas River at Badlapur Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Will Government be pleased to state— (a) whether the consideration of the question of constructing a low level causeway on the river Ulhas at Badlapur in the Thana District has not yet been finished ;

(b) whether the whole correspondence including the Commissioner’s and the Collector’s reports thereon would be placed on the Council Table ; (c) whether they are aware that a high level bridge instead of a low level causeway is absolutely necessary ?

The Honourable Mr. J. L. Rieu : (a) No. But it is hoped that a conclusion will soon be reached.

(b) Government are not prepared to place the correspondence on the table. (c) No.

(B.L.C. Debates, Vol. XX, p. 1472, dated 27th July 1927) Forest Land for Cultivation : Grants to Depressed Classes Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Will Government be pleased to state— (a) the total extent of forest land given for cultivation in each district of this Presidency in the years 1923, 1924, 1925 and 1926 ; (b) how much of this was given to the Depressed Classes in each district in the years mentioned ?

The Honourable Mr. G. B. Pradhan : (a) and (b) A statement furnishing the required information is placed on the Council Table. The area shown in the statement is for each forest division of the Presidency. Statement of forest land given out for cultivation during 1923, 1924, 1925 and 1926 Forest Division Total extent of forest land given out for cultivation 1923 1924 1925 1926 Northern Circle Acres Acres Acres Acres 1 Panch Mahals .. .. 660 7,536 …. 9 2 Surat .. .. 1,175 1,152 3,558 …. 3 North Thana .. .. 191 171 …. 5 4 West Thana .. .. 339 330 295 …. 5 East Thana .. .. 21,463 2,237 2,810 3,733 6 West Nasik .. .. 3,080 432 1,817 256 7 East Nasik .. .. 8,493 2,714 2,100 2,482 Central Circle 1 East Khandesh .. .. 186 401 1,756 1,872 2 North Khandesh .. .. …. 1,325 1,660 1,815 3 West Khandesh .. .. 90 51 235 560 4 Poona .. .. 1 1 70 36 5 Ahmednagar .. .. 4,254 55 86 88 6 Satara .. .. 3,516 252 473 285 Southern Circle 1 Northern Division, Kanara .. 22 …. …. 7 2 Eastern Division, Kanara .. 105 137 33 7 3 Southern Division, Kanara .. 26 40 31 37 4 Western Division, Kanara .. 133 70 59 5 5 Central Division, Kanara .. 13 6 1 …. 6 Belgaum .. .. 668 719 2,006 2,717 7 Dharwar .. .. 346 25 154 132 Sind Circle 1 Sukkur .. .. 1,841 2,577 1,330 1,888 2 Shikapur .. .. 1,399 1,256 1,066 928 3 Larkana .. .. 4,321 3,143 4,838 5,300 4 Hyderabad . . .. .. 549 1,782 2,071 2,396 5 Karachi .. .. 92 1,093 1,789 3,084

Statement of forest land given out for cultivation during 1923, 1924, 1925 and 1926— contd. Forest Division Land given to the Depressed Classes 1923 1924 1925 1926 Remarks Northern Circle Acres Acres Acres Acres 1 Panch Mahals .. .. 227 1,446 .. 9 2 Surat .. .. 1,175 1,152 3,558 .. 3 North Thana .. .. 191 171 .. 5 4 West Thana .. .. 339 330 295 .. 5 East Thana .. .. 21,463 2,237 2,810 3,733 6 West Nasik .. .. 2,927 411 1,727 243 7 East Nasik .. .. 8,493 2,714 2,100 2,482 Central Circle 1 East Khandesh .. .. .. 30 91 101 2 North Khandesh .. .. .. 1,325 1,660 1,815 3 West Khandesh .. .. 40 37 90 340 4 Poona .. .. .. .. .. ..

5 Ahmednagar .. .. 55 .. .. ..

6 Satara .. .. .. .. .. ..

Southern Circle 1 Northern Division, .. .. .. .. .. No applications were received from persons of Depressed Classes during these years.

2 Kanara Eastern Division, Kanara .. .. .. .. ..

3 Southern Division, Kanara .. 20 38 28 36 4 5 Western Division, Kanara Central Division, Kanara ..

..

..

..

..

..

..

..

..

..

No applications were received from persons of Depressed Classes during these years.

6 Belgaum .. .. 45 104 23 664 7 Dharwar .. .. .. .. .. .. Do. Sind Cir 1 Sukkur .. .. .. .. .. .. There are no Depressed Classes in Sind who do agricultural work.

2 Shikapur .. .. .. .. .. ..

3 Larkana .. .. .. .. .. ..

4 Hyderabad .. .. .. .. .. ..

5 Karachi .. .. .. .. .. ..

(B.T.C. Debates. Vol. XX. pp. 1472-74. dated 27th July 1927)

Tobacco Licence Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Will Government be pleased to state— (a) whether one Narayan Sakharam had applied to the Superintendent of Excise, Tobacco Department, for licence to sell tobacco ;

(b) whether his application was refused although the applicant was a military pensioner and was recommended for licence by the Officer Commanding the 117th Rajputs ;

(c) the reasons why his application was refused ;

(d) whether the application was refused on account of the fact that the applicant belonged to the depressed classes ;

(e) whether they make any caste discrimination in the matter of issuing licences ? The Honourable Mr. J. L. Rieu : (a) Yes.

(b) Yes.

(c) Tobacco licences are only granted to persons in really indigent circumstances who are unable to earn a livelihood by any other means. The person referred to by the honourable member was reported to be quite fit to earn his livelihood in other ways. He was therefore refused a licence.

(d) No.

(e) No.

Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Is this in accordance with the rules laid down by the department in the matter of tobacco licences ?

The Honourable Mr. J. L. Rieu : I do not think that there are any specific rules on the subject, but that is the practice.

Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : May I know whether this particular question refers to the honourable member’s department or to the department under the Excise Minister ? The Honourable Mr. J. L. Rieu : This refers to the Revenue Department. Tobacco licences are given out by the Collector of Bombay.

(B.L.C. Debates, Vol. XXI. p. 57. dated 29th September 1927) Forest Lands, Nasik : Applications of Mahars Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Will Government be pleased to state— (a) whether they are aware that the Mahars of the village of Pimplad in taluka Nasik had applied to the Collector for forest land ;

(b) whether they had asked for survey number 220 in the village of Pimplad ; (c) whether, that being refused, they had asked for survey number 202 in the village of Rajur-Babula ;

(d) whether, that being refused they had asked for survey number 71 in the village of Rajur-Babula ;

(e) whether it is a fact that even this last application has been rejected ; (f) the reasons for this persistent refusal to consider favourably the applications of these Mahars ?

The Honourable Mr. G. B. Pradhan : (a), ( b), ( c), ( d) and (e) Yes, as it had already been granted to another individual.

(2) Survey No. 202 of Rajur is pasture forest incharge of the Revenue Department. It is sold annually for grazing to the villagers, and it cannot be granted for any other purpose, as the remaining grazing area available in the village is not sufficient for their requirements. (3) For the same reason Survey No. 71 of Rajur-Babula which is assigned for Kuran (grazing ground) could not be granted to the Mahars. I may add that 11 survey numbers of Pimplad and Rajur-Babula comprising of nearly 200 acres of land were the only lands available for being given out for cultivation. They were therefore put to sale at an upset price 12 times the assessment and it was ordered that none but the Mahars, Bhils and Kolis should bid. The condition was imposed specially to exclude unfair competition by moneyed people. The papers of the sales recently sanctioned show that two Kolis and three Mahars of Pimplad and one Koli and three Mahars of Rajur-Babula are the purchasers.

(B.L.C. Debates, Vol. XXI, p. 219, dated 1st October 1927) Grazing Grounds, Thana District Dr. P. G. Solanki on behalf of Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Will Government be pleased to state— (a) whether their attention has been drawn to the information published on pages 372 and 417 of the Vividha Jnana Vistar of the year 1926 ; (b) if so, whether they intend to take steps to order such varkas or grass lands to be free from assessment ;

(c) whether they intend to let open the forest lands of the village of Badlapur in the Thana District for agricultural and grazing purposes as the income from those forest lands is comparatively very small ? The Honourable Mr. J. L. Rieu : (a) Only when the Honourable Member gave notice of this question.

(b) No.

(c) No.

(B.L.C. Debates, Vol. XXI, pp. 269-70, dated 1st October 1927) Forest Lands for Depressed Classes Dr. P. G. Solanki on behalf of Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Will Government be pleased to state— (a) whether they are aware of the enormous extent of unemployment prevailing among the depressed classes ;

(b) whether in view of the fact that many occupations are closed to the depressed classes owing to the system of untouchability, they intend to consider the question of forming settlements of the depressed classes wherever tracts of forests lands are available as has been done by the Mysore Government ;

(c) whether they intend to give preferential treatment to applicants from the depressed classes for forest lands ?

The Honourable Mr. G. B. Pradhan : ( a) No.

(b) Such settlements have already been formed in the three Khandesh Divisions, and the feasibility of forming further settlements will be considered if applications are made and suitable lands in forests are available. (c) Application from depressed classes for forest lands will be favourably considered, but no promise of preferential treatment can be held out. (B.L.C. Debates, Vol. XXI, pp. 269-70, dated 1st October 1927) Deccan Agriculturists’ Relief Act : Repeal Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Will Government be pleased to state— (a) whether it is a fact that they are contemplating the introduction of a bill to repeal the Deccan Agriculturists’ Relief Act ;

(b) if so, whether they have ascertained the views of the agricultural population whose interests are bound to be affected by such a step ; (c) whether they are aware that the Royal Commission on Agriculture has expressed the opinion that the operation of the Usurious Loans Act, 1918. has not been successful ?

The Honourable Mr. J. R. Martin : (a) and (b) The question of amending or repealing the Deccan Agriculturists’ Relief Act has been postponed till the question of legislation in connection with agricultural indebtedness recommended by the Royal Agricultural Commission can be taken up as a whole. (c) Yes.

(B.L.C. Debates, Vol. XXIV, p. 287, dated 29th September 1928) Government Servants : Salaries and Pensions Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Will Government be pleased to state the total amount they paid out in 1927-28 (or any other year previous to it for which figures are available)— (i) as salaries to their permanent servant in the subordinate and clerical services ;

(ii) as pensions to servants who were in their subordinate and clerical services ? The Honourable Mr. G. B. Pradhan : (i) Figures of the cost of permanent and temporary establishments are not separately available. The total amount expended by the Provincial Government during 1925-26 on the salaries of their subordinate establishments was Rs. 296 lakhs excluding the cost (amounting to about Rs. 25 lakhs) of the menial establishments.

(ii) Government regret that they are unable to furnish the information asked for as separate figures for different classes of establishments are not readily available.

(B.L.C. Debates, Vol. XXIV. p. 287. dated 29th September 1928)

Government Servants : Starting Pay of Graduates Dr. P. G. Solanki on behalf of Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Will Government be pleased to state— (a) whether it is a fact that Mr. S. K. Bole had put a question in the Council asking for information about the starting pay of Graduates in the City of Bombay ;

(b) whether it is a fact that Government replied that Graduates were started on Rs. 90 except those serving in the Lower Grade in those offices, where the establishments are divided into “Upper and Lower Grades,” and that Government issued Government Resolution, Finance Department, No. 1140, dated 25th March 1925 directing the Heads of Departments accordingly ; (c) whether it is a fact that inspite of the abovementioned Government Resolution directing the Heads of Departments to start Graduates on Rs. 90 in the City of Bombay, the Collector of Bombay starts Graduates on Rs. 60 only in the departments under him, even though there are no Upper and Lower Grades in those departments ;

(d) whether Government are aware that Graduates start on Rs. 70 in the mofussil ?

The Honourable Mr. G. B. Pradhan : (a) Yes.

(b) Government replied that all Heads of Offices in Bombay were authorised to pay an initial salary of Rs. 90 to all graduates except those in the Lower Division in those offices in which the establishment is divided into Upper and Lower Divisions. Orders to the above effect were issued in Government Resolution, Finance Department, No. 1140, dated 25th March 1925. (c) Under the orders referred to by the Honourable Member Government have authorised their Heads of Offices to start graduates, except those in the Lower Division in those offices in which the establishment is divided into Upper and Lower Divisions, on an initial pay of Rs. 90 per mensem in the revised time scale. According to the above orders the Collector of Bombay gives an initial pay of Rs. 90 per mensem to a graduate where he thinks that a graduate clerk is absolutely necessary whereas in other cases graduates are given rates of pay ranging from Rs. 60 to Rs. 90 according to the importance of the work assigned to them.

(d) Yes.

(B.L.C. Debates, Vol. XXV, p. 685, dated 28th February 1929) Land Acquisition : Mulshi Dam Dr. P. G. Solanki on behalf of Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Will Government be pleased to state— (a) whether the lands of the Mahars of Mohari and Wadgaon, taluka Haveli, district Poona, were acquired by Government on account of the Mulshi dam ; (b) the rates at which the lands were acquired ;

(c) whether the price of the lands was paid to the Mahars of these villages ? The Honourable Mr. J. L. Rieu : (a) Yes.

(b) Rs. 50 per acre for Jirait land and Rs. 550 per acre for Gadi (rice) lands. (c) The lands being service inam, the sums awarded were credited to Government and an annual cash allowance calculated at 5 per cent. of the total amount of the compensation was sanctioned for the watandar Mahars. (B.L.C. Debates, Vol. XXV, p. 767, dated 1st March 1927) Grants-in-aid to Local Boards Dr. P. G. Solanki on behalf of Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Will Government be pleased to state— (a) whether it is a fact that the question of grants to Local Boards has been kept pending for nearly 3 years by the Director of Public Instruction ; (b) if so, who is responsible for the delay ;

(c) what steps, if any, Government propose to take in the matter ? The Honourable Moulvi Rafiuddin Ahmed : (a) If the honourable member refers to grants by Government on account of primary education the provisional grants made yearly to district local boards or local authorities are often in excess of the actual amount shown to be due after audit. The final adjustment of these yearly grants are made later when audit objections have been met. (b) Does not arise.

(c) No alteration of the existing procedure is contemplated. (B.L.C. Debates, Vol. XXV, p. 1092, dated 7th March 1929) Bombay Municipal Corporation—Morland Road Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Will Government be pleased to state— (a) whether it is a fact that the Bombay Municipal Corporation has not completely re-constructed Morland Road even once during the last 15 years, and, if so, the reasons therefor ;

(b) whether Government intend to take any steps in the matter ; (c) whether it is a fact that the matter was represented to the Police Authorities and to the Municipal Corporation through representations and in the Press ? The Honourable Dewan Bahadur Harilal D. Desai : (a) It is not a fact that the road has not been repaired during the last 15 years. During the period 1914 to 1921 the whole road was repaired regularly and in 1920-21 the entire length was repaired and the surface dressed with a paint coat of tar at a cost of Rs. 11,640-15-3. Since 1922 substantial repairs have not been carried out, but extensive patching of the road surface has been frequently done. The Corporation has given its consent to the re-construction of the road with sheet asphalt on cement concrete foundations and the work will be taken in hand in due course. (b) No.

(c) Complaints have been made to the Corporation.

(B.L.C. Debates, Vol. XXV, p. 1092, dated 7th March 1929) Secondary Schools : Grants-in-aid Dr. P. G. Solanki for Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Will Government be pleased to state— (a) the reasons why the question of reorganising the basis of assessing annual grants to Secondary Schools was not considered last year ; (b) whether there are any schools in the Presidency that have deserved special consideration from Government in point of receiving regular grants-in-aid ; (c) whether in assessing grants to Secondary Schools the Director of Public Instruction is invariably guided by the inspection reports of the Educational Inspectors ? If not, what is generally his standard of distributing annual grants to Secondary Schools ;

(d) whether the Educational Department observe, in order to maintain the departmental standard of efficiency, some basis on which the aided Schools are’ expected to spend per capita annually, and the Government on the other hand are expected to share the corresponding cost ? If so, what is the minimum ratio between the cost to the Government and the institution according to the basis ; (e) the minimum number of years after which a Secondary School is given registration by the Education Department ;

(f) the number of Secondary Schools of over 5 years’ standing that have not yet been permanently registered for grant-in-aid ?

The Honourable Moulvi Rafiuddin Ahmed : (a) Government were generally satisfied that the basis on which grants to Secondary Schools are assessed is sound.

(b) Yes.

(c) Grants are assessed according to the principles laid down in the Grantin-aid Code. In framing his estimate of the extent to which a particular school satisfies the requirements of the Grant-in-aid Code, the Director of Public Instruction is invariably guided by the reports of the Inspecting staff. The question in the latter portion does not therefore arise. (d) No definite standard of expenditure per capita is observed in assessing expenditure for grant. The system laid down in the Grant-in-aid Code provides for grants at the rate of one-third of the admitted expenditure being given to all schools which satisfy the requirements, subject to the funds allotted for the purpose permitting.

(e) No minimum number of years is prescribed. Owing to lack of funds the registration of additional schools has been suspended.

(f) About 110 schools.

(B.L.C. Debates, Vol. XXVIII, pp. 585-86, dated 27th February 1980) zz